[NTarrant]

No, you can travel at any time you want, providing you don’t travel at the times the ticket is not valid. But you can if you then upgrade to the anytime.

[Binman62]

Returning to the matter of APD.

The Sunday telegraph ran an article yesterday in which BA made it clear that APD was the reson for the cut back in service to the Carribean…

I suspect BA are using APD as the blunt instrument with which to justify route changes that are being created not because there is APD butn because there are more profitable routes.

In any event BA own fuel surcharge is almost 3 times the rate of APD and that is far more damaging.

I for one could not agree to a reduction in this tax without seeing a shift away from fuel surcharges and towards proper pricing. BA currently charges a fare of just £43 return to CAI form LHR with APD at £60 and other fees at £40. However the fuel surcharge is £175.

APD is not driving people off aircraft the fuel surcharges are.

[RichHI1]

I agree with you Binman. I would like legislation that airline prices must be quoted inclusive of all taxes, surcharges, add ons and fees. if LoCosts were forced to quote prices assuming 2 checked bags, airport check in, using the toilets etc, they might revise their charging structure. I object to one way price adverts and trying to pretend that Fuel surcharges to bolster airline margins are government imposed taxes.
Imagine the fun posters could have if rail prices did not include baggage, using the platform, using a baggage cart, having the ticket manually punched, use of platform announcements and diesel surcharge…

[NTarrant]

It isn’t just BA Binman that is lumping surcharges, but I don’t understand your logic in saying you could not agree to a reduction in APD.

RichHI1 you are right about the price being inclusive, I agree that all these elements should be in the price and essentially Joe Public would not have an idea how much APD or whatever is as the price would be the price. The same goes for credit card charges, they know most will pay in that form, but it should be costed in. If someone pays with a cheaper way then happy days for them.

LoCo’s might be awkward, perhaps it should be as you say assuming various items but then getting a reduction for taking the bags off etc.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

“No, you can travel at any time you want, providing you don’t travel at the times the ticket is not valid. But you can if you then upgrade to the anytime.”

So, you cannot travel anytime you lilke on the saver or the off peak, as it is not valid for all times.

But you can travel anytime on an Anytime, because it is valid all the time.

Did I get that right?

[RichHI1]

Except when there is no train…. or the wrong kind of snow/leaves/rain/heat…

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Binman

Pricing elasticity (or lack of it) is driving customers off the planes, the bottom line for me is that the age of cheap flying is a happy memory. Whether it is APD, fuel surcharge, credit cards etc, the price to joe public is the ultimate arbiter and s/he is not presently minded to pay more.

What I do foresee are more mergers and acquisitions, possibly a bust or two and a significant reduction in capacity, to drive margins higher.

The golden era of cheap flying is probably gone for a while.

[AMcWhirter]

Disgusted

The point is that the only restriction with the off-peak tickets is that you have to leave an hour or so later from London. From Penzance you can take any train back to London.

I assumed that for a family travelling together it is probably more palatable to depart London at 0906 or 1006 (the first services for which the off-peak trains are valid) rather than at 0706 or 0730.

It is, after all, a leisure trip.

Car rental will always be more convenient but, then again, Penzance is a long drive from London unless you want to stopover en route.

Probably the best solution is to take the train to Penzance and rent a car there.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

LondonCity

Thanks, but I do get the drift, just wanted to ensure that we were comparing apples with apples (as far as one can.)

The bottom line seems to be that the true comparison (flexible v flexibe) is Anytime versus car rental and presumably this is a good money spinner for the rail company, if someone needs to leave at 0706 or 0730.

[Binman62]

NTarrant…..I accept that it is not just BA however BA argued in the Telegraph article that it was APD specifically that was forcing them out of routes. This is nonsense.
Moreover BA and to a lesser extent VS, by nature of their position in the UK market, pretty much determine fares. Of course there is competition but as we can see with ex EU fares competition in the UK air travel market is not working.

The policy that BA have adopted is rankly dishonest as afr as surcharges go. They are now used solely to ensure that BA continues to capture incremental revenue from redemption bookings.
As I quoted the LHR CAI fare is just £43 return in WT but surcharges take this up to about £220 before taxes and fees are added.

No one would deny that £220 is a reasonable fare; indeed it’s cheap and highly competitive. £43 however is charged to ensure that BA continues to be competitive on tickets sold for money including the surcharges but they then also additional revenue from redemption tickets.

This can be seen on most BA routes from domestic to Europe to long haul. The surcharge as it has grown has not added to fares per se, it has actually forced the fare element down to levels that are no longer credible.

APD may not be liked but it is at least open honest and transparent unlike BA own pricing structure.

And RichHI1 is also correct that it is dishonest to refer to such surcharges as taxes as BA sales staff do far to often.

[NTarrant]

So the age of cheap flying is a happy memory and the golden era of cheap flying is probably gone for a while, umm there is some logic there I would agree Disgusted

Now there are no such things as savers anymore, but there are off peak returns. You can use an off peak ticket on any train providing it is not a train it is not valid on. If you do then you have to pay to upgrade the portion of your ticket to a suitable ticket which allows you to travel on that journey. Simples! Even for Star readers!

[RichHI1]

Interesting talk about cornwall when you see FLybe from LGW outbound 9.00 am on Saturday returning 3.00 pm following Saturday comes in at UKL95.08 per person and is 1 hour 5 mins each way including the ubiquitous APD (you see it is on topic).

[NTarrant]

Binman I understand the point you are making but I can’t agree about the fare overall with taxes etc. Take for example a trip to AMS, over a weekend in December. BA in CE want £352.00. KL want £599 for their business class. Take same time BRU, BA £362, Brussels Airlines £674. Surcharges, taxes or whatever it is you have a choice either you go with the cheapest or the airline you prefer

[NTarrant]

Ah yes RichHI1 but did that include bags? and don’t forget to add the cost of getting to LGW and it does also depend on where you go in Cornwall. Anyway, isn’t that service finishing at the end of October?

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

“Now there are no such things as savers anymore, but there are off peak returns. You can use an off peak ticket on any train providing it is not a train it is not valid on. If you do then you have to pay to upgrade the portion of your ticket to a suitable ticket which allows you to travel on that journey. Simples! Even for Star readers!”

Yes, it is simple. With a hire car one can travel at any time at all, with an offpeak ticket, one cannot, unless one pays the difference to the Anytime ticket, for whcih we know the return cost is £966.

If you want to talk about logic, let’s look at yours – “No, you can travel at any time you want, providing you don’t travel at the times the ticket is not valid.”

It’s a cracker, as a certain comic used to say.

[Author]

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