[BeckyBoop]

Why are exEU fares cheaper than that exUK? Seems daft to charge your own more another case of rip off Briton.

[spudseamus]

BB you should see the rip off from downunder to Europe!! LOL! you guys have it sooooo good !

[smartloobylou]

thank the government – ex EU flights dont have the heavy taxes that our govt charge for flights that commence out of the UK – also most ex EU airlines will get the direct flight business from their country, so BA have nothing to lose trying to tempt them by cheaper fares by coming via UK

[Binman62]

It has nothing whatever to do with government taxes as can be seen from example below.
LHR – CGK
1st June return 8th June
Club World fare ex LHR £7607.09.
Of which £614 is taxes fees and charges
Fuel is £395 of this and fees to airport operators £34.49
UK APD is £184 less than half the fuel surcharge!

Ex Milan, same day, same flights, same cabin
2824 Euro or £2292.52 a saving of £5315 on just 1 ticket.
The fare is just 30% of what a passenger is paying by originating in the UK.
Of which 578 Euro is taxes fees and charges (£469)
BA Fuel surcharge is now 509 euro (£413)
Airport fees are 69.42 Euro with the UK taking the vast bulk of this at 59.90 Euro. (£48)

Even if the UK government added twice the UK APD rate to the fare it would still be a fraction of the UK fare overall. So let’s get real, UK APD is a pain but it is not the problem.
Fact……Fuel surcharge on a premium cabin long haul flight is more than double the level of UK APD on the same flight.
Fact Fuel Surcharges ex the UK are 10 times the level of fees charged by airport operators.
Fact Ex Europe the UK APD is not charged as you are in transit however Fuel surcharge rises due to the extra two sectors.
It is almost always cheaper to originate in mainland Europe that the UK and by such a margin that even if sales fares are included they rarely if ever come in cheaper than an ex EU fare.
Why are they cheaper….many will tell you it is market forces but I rather think it is simply about ripping people off. It is not simply a BA problem but affects many airlines and indeed all walks of life in the UK.

It has nothing whatever to do with Uk APD though.

[smartloobylou]

thanks for the correction – i had no idea, always thought it was UK charges but looks like another example of us having to pay over the odds in the uk. how depressing 🙁

[Binman62]

LH…SAME DAY IS EURO 5417 FROM FRA OR MUC.
FROM LHR LH IS EURO 5095 THOUGH IT CAN BE REDUCED TO 4712 BY DEPARTING 1 DAY LATER.
WE REALLY ARE MUGS IN THE UK FOR PUTTING UP WITH THIS.

[MartynSinclair]

Binman – thanks for your comparisons. HGow do the numbers look if you go ex-Milan and use another airline besides BA?

The only way I can se the masses having any effect on this rip off is to start flying ex-Europe. All that will then happen is that BA will find a way of identfying those passengers and finding a way of charging them more.

When I first started flying ex-Europe I used a travel agent in Germany, until BA put pressure on them not to sell ex-Dusseldorf tickets. At the time I found this very strange that not only were BA concenred but they could actually identify I was British and using an ex-Dussoldorf ticket.

[AMcWhirter]

Binman 62 – re BA J class fares to CGK …

The question that must be asked is why fly BA on this route ? Or why not cut costs and purchase separate tickets, eg LHR-SIN with BA + SIN-CGK with another carrier.

But returning to what I said earlier, simply choose another carrier than BA for huge savings.

Compare J class flights on the same dates with Opodo you will find a much better selection of prices for LHR-CGK.

Examples include: QR for £2339, EK for £2926, EY for £3523, LH for £4246. Best value in terms of product quality, connections and so on would be SQ at £4052.

[Binman62]

LondonCity…Agree was only using BA ex EU and Ex UK as comparison. The fares you have shown demonstrate just how expensive BA are ex the UK.
Booking LHR SIN is £4900 for the same dates and times however the use of separate tickets also brings risks. I would accept that for £2000 plus saving the risks are worth it but the issue was how cheap is it ex the EU than ex the UK

The reasons for flying the route ex EU are numerous.
1. It is all on BA flight numbers and one world.
2. Consequently good Avios collection.
3. Single roundtrip produces a silver BAEC membership
4. Club World is a decent product at the EX EU fare level.
5. MFU opportunities on BA from J to F.

As a family of 4 who use the route it means that I can collect almost enough miles for 4 x J using amex 241. As well as 4 x silver cards on one round trip and for just over £7000. Last year we even managed last minute upgrade to F for all 4 of us.

This year doing it all on the points we have accumulated over last 4 years in F though if the Euro collapses would look again at booking ex Milan.

AMS, FCO, IST, MXP and a number of other EU points also offer very good deals

Martyn

Lufthansa ex Milan same dates is working out at 5700 euro…some difference.

CX same day 3987 but could be had for 3200 euro by departing day earlier.

[VintageKrug]

As ever, the Binman’s price comparisons don’t really tell the full picture, and could be misleading.

Note he is looking at a route in Indonesia not served directly by BA, on such connecting itineraries prices are almost always considerably higher, and oneworld itineraries often price the connection as a flexible fare (in this case the Cathay HKG-CGK sectors), which adds further to the price quoted by BA.com.

The requirement to use multiple carriers also means it’s not possible to see the price comparison matrix either side of the date of travel to see whether those options would be less expensive.

There’s also no mention of the cost of flying to the exEU destination, timings may require an overnight, and then of course there’s the time lost and the hassle/risk of it all.

Finally, he’s also chosen a booking period (just!) within 30 days of today’s date; one has to ask if that was deliberate or co-incidental.

These fares are always more expensive and while I understand businesses and other people often need to travel at short notice, for which exEU is a useful alternative, there are considerably less expensive fares out there if you make an effort to plan ahead, and in the specific case of this example, just a four days switch has a material effect on prices.

Of course most leisure travellers would also be able to book in a sale, and further reduce the cost, as well as pote ntial take advantage of further discounts such as codes released at Taste of London, or 10% shareholder discounts (for those eligible on BA metal only).

If Binman had selected a date just 12 days later (12-19 June, rather than 1-8 June) for exactly the same route to Indonesia, the price drops by 10%; I’m certain if you booked the two sectors separately it would drop further as the LHR-HKG leg drops from £5k to £3k by itself, and I can’t believe the Cathay sector wouldn’t also be much less than £2k if booked non-flex.

If Binman was to make a similar comparison on one of BA’s core routes (like LHR-NYC) 30+ days out and including a Saturday night stay, I think there would be some more useful comparisons between exUK and exEU fares.

exEU can be good value (I did one for a last minute trip to the states last week) but for leisure travel (in the context of the family trips he discusses) when taken in the round exEU isn’t the certain bargain he suggests; the differential can often be marginal.

[Binman62]

It was a direct comparison between LHR HKG CGK using BA and CX on (BA codeshare) and the same flights but starting in MXP. The only difference was the addition of the MXP sector. By adding it the fare was just 30% of the ex UK fare. The dates were picked at random. If you book further in advance there is no significant difference in fare.

As for CX ex HKG a D class fare adds £1200 for the same dates to whatever the BA fare is ex LHR. There is no point doing this ex the EU as the deal is so good.

MXP does not require a night stop and neither does the vast majority of ex EU fares. Even IST where the cheapest rates currently are can be done in a day…..if you chose to do so.

Some however start their journey the night before and so long as you are not in transit at LHR for more than 24 hours you avoid the LHR APD.

Fares ex the EU are frequently more flexible than fares ex LHR and many offer stopovers for around 250 euro. So, you can make a weekend of it with your other half, before flying on up to 7 days later for an additional 250 euro! Bargain

As for getting to Europe well one way in club adds £351 LHR MXP and still makes the ex EU fare a fraction of the LHR fare.

I have been doing this a long time as have others and I have never yet seen a BA fare ex LHR in sale that was cheaper than doing the same journey from the EU. The one exception was the 2 club seats for £2012 last Christmas and the restrictions, booking window, travel dates and 2 people travelling, made that deal pretty useless for the vast majority of travellers.

Making the hop to Europe is not for everyone but at the very least people need to see just how much they are being taken for a ride when paying for ex LHR fares. Be it last minute or booked in advance. It is many things but marginal is not one of them.

If you are not paying yourself and passing on the costs to others then fine, pay the ex LHR fare but there are options and simply trying to rubbish those options is silly and to use the posters own words…..TOSH.

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

BA 573 J 01JUN MXPLHR HS1 1235 1335
BA 25 R 01JUN LHRHKG HS1 1830 #1300
BA 4573 I 02JUN HKGCGK HS1 1600 1950 OPERATED BY CATHAY PACIFIC AIRWAYS
BA 4574 J 08JUN CGKHKG HS1 1450 2040 OPERATED BY CATHAY PACIFIC AIRWAYS
BA 26 J 08JUN HKGLHR HS1 2315 #0450
BA 572 J 09JUN LHRMXP HS1 0745 1045

The fare for the above is currently £3947.68 (issuing in UK – might be cheaper on BA Italian website). Fare just from London and back is £7607.09 – First isn’t much more. However it isn’t a normal routing for a ticket with BA – lowest inventory on the return is C Class.

I’m not sure why anyone would buy this ticket?

Personally if this were real I’d recommend the below which has the benefit of of coming back first class on BA (benefit of a good agent??!). Probably wouldn’t find the option on BA.com This is £5708.09 and that is 2 minutes of searching – if it were proper I might go on trying to beat this.

BA 11 01JUN LHRSIN HS1 2025 #1615
SQ 966 02JUN SINCGK HS1 1840 1925
SQ 963 08JUN CGKSIN HS1 1905 2140
BA 12 08JUN SINLHR HS1 2255 #0500

The point about high fares ex UK. I have family that live in Holland and they come to the UK to get there long haul flights as they are cheaper here than to go ex Holland. Most markets on direct flights are more expensive than go via a HUB. Air France direct on many routes from Paris have crazy fares in Economy and Business – especially at peak times. They are often cheaper to go ex-UK. It is just how airlines run there yields. Ultimately they have to make money and people often pay more to fly direct. I don’t think the CGK is a very good example for BA of being expensive.I see your point but one that is known and unlikely to change. As mentioned before people have choice and they are entitled to take cheaper options – or if they really want BA they would just have to pay for it in this instance.

[Binman62]

FlightOracle….Thanks for the update and you seem to have access to a booking system by the HS1 code. You are right that the LHR SIN CGK is a better route (or at least faster) however even this is more than double the BA.com fare when originating in Italy. There are numerous other examples such as LHR HNL versus EU to HNL via LHR. The fares seem to be best value when there is an onward sector under a codeshare but even a simple JFK or LAX would be cheaper ex the EU.

In the past a certain city Africa also provided some exceptionla value on AFFAFR fare basis to Australia. Even here however the fare to Sydeny in First, exceptional as it was, could be reduced significantly by ading a BNE sector on QF but under an AA or BA codeshare.

[MartynSinclair]

Job done!

For anyone looking at Orlando for the summer……BA ex-Europe under £1500.

I cant remember the last time I managed to book Orlando summer flights in Virgin Upper or BA NCW for under £1500 per ticket. Ok they are ex-Europe, but I have spare unsused LHR-Europe tickets, so there is no extra cost for the extra sector and no overnight in Europe is required.

The savings over ex-UK were very significant.

Mrs S has to go Virgin in order to get the very economical car hire for 8 weeks.

Travel insurance courtesy of Amex.

[smartloobylou]

Can u give me specific routing so I can find this fare? Did u use the BA site to book? I promise my kids will behave ;o)

[Author]

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