[FDOS_UK]

Quite honestly though, there were enough passenger recording the incident for their to have been no doubt about what happened…

Without wishing to be argumentative for argument’s sake, I am not sure this is true. For example, did the videos cover the whole event from start to finish?

There is no doubt in my mind that the lady suffered a very unpleasant tirade, but having done jury service and witnessed the cross examination of witnesses evidence, a sharp lawyer would introduce doubt – was there provocation that wasn’t filmed etc.

So, even if the incident did occur prior to pushback at Edinburgh, would the “commander” know that a serious criminal offence had taken place under Scottish Law……not likely ?

Therein lies an interesting question. The only people who can determine this are a jury, rolling backwards the CPS would look at the evidence and decide whether a prosecution is likely to succeed, a police officer would decide whether there were grounds to arrest and detain the alleged perp. The aircraft commander? With the doors open, s/he has low authority and in terms of arrest, has no more power than you or me, i.e. citizen’s arrest and be very careful that you are absolutely sure than an offence has been committed or you could face prosecution yourself. FYI, I don’t know about Ryanair, but some airlines SOPs state the flight crew must not become directly involved and must work via the senior cabin crew member.

So I think the commander could not know, even if s/he may suspect, which is a very different proposition – per earlier posts, s/he could decide to offload the perp as a safety risk, but would need the authorities to assist, at which stage a police officer may decide there were reasonable grounds to suspect an offence and arrest/detain.

[LuganoPirate]

[quote quote=899543]It would be good to hear from a legal expert, trouble is a legal expert in what?

Spanish Law
Irish Law
UK law[/quote]

In the 80’s I once took a flight from Douala to Lome via Lagos with Air Cameroon. In Lagos the police boarded and wanted to search passengers for money they were perhaps illegally carrying. The French captain ordered them off the aircraft saying this was Cameroonian territory and they had no right to be on board. They promptly left.

So assuming the aircraft was Irish registered I’d say Irish law would apply.

[FDOS_UK]

I believe if the incident had happened when the aircraft was in flight, Irish law would have been the jurisdiction, but because the doors were open, it would be under Spanish jurisdiction.

If one thinks of the number of pilots breathalysed and arrested by the local plod and prosecuted in the local courts, that seems to be the case.

I think this is why Essex Police have identified the person and shared details with their counterparts in Barcelona.

[Bath_VIP]

FDOS, do aircraft not have CCTV on board? Nearly all other modes of transport have these and they could be used by the captain to check disputed incidents.

[FDOS_UK]

[quote quote=899644]FDOS, do aircraft not have CCTV on board? Nearly all other modes of transport have these and they could be used by the captain to check disputed incidents.[/quote]

I do not know.

[Bath_VIP]

This petition has started up and pretty much covers what I want to see.

https://www.change.org/p/ryanair-apologise-to-compensate-delsie-gayle-for-racist-abuse-on-your-flight?recruiter=188373446&utm_source=share_sponsor_thank_you&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=undefined

[FDOS_UK]

That petition is not something I would sign up to, e.g. Rosa Parks was courageously objecting to a state sustained law – I wonder if it has crossed anyone’s minds that the crew may have moved the lady as she was considered a risk to evacuation, when sitting in an aisle sea, due to reduced mobility, i.e. the alleged cause of the appalling rant by male pax – slow to move? (this does not justify his intemperance).

I can’t find a published policy from Ryanair, but Finnair policy is

Please note that passengers with reduced mobility will be assigned a seat by the window due to security reasons.

Not everything is a conspiracy or driven by bad intentions.

Reference

https://www.finnair.com/gb/gb/information-services/before-the-flight/special-services-health/elderly-passengers

[capetonianm]

I would not sign the petition. I do not see a sound reason why the lady should get compensation from Ryanair, even if they didn’t handle the incident correctly, and we don’t know that.

I am in favour of the man being dealt with appropriately and possibly being made to make some sort of apology to those whom he insulted. It said he worked for SouthWest trains – I wonder if it was the same vile specimen of subhumanity whom I saw bullying a little old lady out of first class on a train from Waterloo.

[LuganoPirate]

[quote quote=899844]Please note that passengers with reduced mobility will be assigned a seat by the window due to security reasons.[/quote]

In other words, if you can’t move we’ll leave you to your fate??? Sad but I think true!

[FDOS_UK]

[quote quote=899904]

FDOS_UK wrote:

Please note that passengers with reduced mobility will be assigned a seat by the window due to security reasons.

In other words, if you can’t move we’ll leave you to your fate??? Sad but I think true![/quote]

I don’t think it is quite as dark as that, more a matter that the able bodied pax need to get off ASAP and then the crew can assist those who are not.

Trying to help people with reduced mobility before the other pax get off is obviously virtually impossible.

There is a heightened risk for the less mobile though, no doubt about it.

[MartynSinclair]

[quote quote=899204]One thing that concerned me was that if the lady was impaired in movement (at 77, many people are), why was she sitting in anything other than a window seat – yes, the guy was annoyed she took time to move to let him in, but the other way is more important and if the aircraft required an evacuation, it is not right that someone who cannot move quickly should be in the way of other pax – sorry if that comes across harshly, but one of these days it will be me and I’ll have to accept it, too[/quote]

I think an impaired in movement person should have an aisle seat. Makes it easier for them to get out in the case of an emergency and if they need to go to the loo.

[FDOS_UK]

[quote quote=900183]I think an impaired in movement person should have an aisle seat. Makes it easier for them to get out in the case of an emergency and if they need to go to the loo.[/quote]

I understand your point about the lav, but would you like to be window side of someone, whose impariment might result in your severe injury or death in the event of a fire?

[canucklad]

I wonder how seriously Ryanair crew actually abide by such regulations……

Forgetting the aisle/window seat discussion for the moment, I can recall umpteen times emergency exit seats weren’t occupied, and worse occupied by obese folk or on many a trip back from Dublin or Alicante people either so drunk they’re comatose within seconds or unable to comprehend they’re actually on an aircraft !!

Back to the aisle/window debate, surely this is getting close to breaking discrimination laws.

And linking it to the new topic about BA moving openfly from his requested seats, I noticed that EasyJet have jumped on the bandwagon and will allow you to pay on-board to move seats, although I requested a move and they put me in the emergency exit seat FOC last week.

[Bath_VIP]

The good news is that I have now booked my travels with British Airways from Heathrow and Ryanair have failed to get my custom. BA Holidays have a sale on at the moment and I’ve worked out that it was £15 cheaper with BA over Ryanair for the same hotel and of course I get Avios and Tier points as well.

Curiously the Aer Lingus fares out of Bristol have fallen over the last week but they are still quite a bit higher than Ryanair.

[Bath_VIP]

FDOS, as someone who is registered I have never heard of any restrictions on sitting in an aisle seat and never been asked to move from one. I have been asked to move from emergency exit rows but not any other seat.

[Author]

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