[NameRemoved-18/12/14]

I say keep CE on certain ‘select’ short flights such as Geneva and on all sectors lasting more than 150 minutes.

Hot meals should be offered on all flights to Club pax as a priority and IMO is more of an issue than legroom.

[norbert2008]

Well it would be great if BA could provide Biz class like TK, but I am sure its not easy for them? Yes keep it. Recent flight LGW/Faro great to have hot supper, cheese, etc? No, starter or Pud though? Legroom very important, 2×2 (came back Easy Jet, cramped and just dull) Yes to hot or substantial food offering on every flight any time we are paying for it. Free booze just not a compensation as most people, unlike me are working or driving at end of flight.
Everyone will note catering on short Asia flights in biz, 1/2 hours +?
Lord C

[rodders]

Cedric nice to see you back after some while!
Alexpo1, having just had the misfortune to travel in CE LHR/DUB on a connecting flight from Almaty to LHR, the plane was G-MIDT an ex BMI unit with the most dire legroom I have come across, so I think BA need to a) create a uniform product from a seat perspective and then address the catering, am happy to go without food for 90 minutes but would rather my legs were not crushed.

[LadyLlondon]

Surely the contract had been completed where she had paid an amount in order to receive Business Class service?

If she was then downgraded, whch this effectively was, then would she not be entitiled to a cash value of something like 75% of the fare difference?

Not that CE food is anything to want to eat at all mostly, but I certainly would not have continued to sit in the Business Class seat I had paid for as soon as a key element of the upgrade I had paid for was found to be missing.

[SimonS1]

I’ve never really been convinced by CE on short flights hence rarely use it even when upgrades are cheap.

The lounge access is handy (although many people will have status access), as is a bit of extra space (but legroom is not guaranteed anyway).

I can manage without food for a couple of hours and it’s not as if airline food ever rises above the mediocre.

Would I pay for a proper 2+2 premium offering for short haul? Not at the prices airlines would expect to charge.

Tough one as in this day and age it doesn’t really stack up which is why it is flogged off cheap via MMB etc.

[Bath_VIP]

Legroom & seat comfort is far more important to me than on-board catering.

[BA744fan]

Maybe the solution is to remove CE completely from all flights shorter than a specific duration, eg 90 or 20 minutes. After all, domestic UK flights are already all economy aren’t they?

There would therefore be a designated fleet of one class planes and a separate 2 class fleet which offers a full business class experience – wider seats, more leg room, full food and beverage service etc.

BA could than charge a fare that reflects the upgrade in quality and service, unlike the current state of play where one pays for business class and gets economy.

[IanFromHKG]

KarenBrown, EU261 specifies downgrading compensation rates on applicable flights. A 75% refund is only available for downgrades on flights over 3,500 km (or between the EU and French oversears departments). For flights of more than 1,500 within the EU (except between the EU and French overseas departments), and flights between 1,500 and 3,500 km elsewhere, the reund is 50%for flights of 1,500km or less, 30%

[AMcWhirter]

Hello Ian

Thank you for setting out the EU261 rules re flight distance.

Hello KarenBrown

http://www.businesstraveller.com/ask-alex/2014/why-does-ba-offer-upgrades-when-it-cana-t-provi

As I mentioned in my reply to Donna Lee, see final paragraph, catering does not form part of the CE contract. And that’s a rule not just confined to BA… that rule applies to airlines all around the world.

If that wasn’t the case then we wouldn’t have such a thing as no-frills airlines.

You may remember a few years ago that there was a fire in the New York catering centre used by BA. The centre was shut down. It meant that passengers taking BA flights back to London (even in the premium classes) dined on snacks. General compensation (and passengers may have had to apply for it) was limited to bonus Air Miles (it was in the days before Avios).

During a later strike at BA’s Heathrow catering centre, long-haul flights were departing London with little if any food onboard.

[KarlMarx]

With the greatest respect to Mr McWhirter, catering may not be a contractual item, but advertising an inclusive meal of a certain standard and then failing to deliver that has a strong smell of ‘bait and switch’ about it. Once the offer has been accepted and the consideration taken, it is not really in the power of the airline to inform someone they can be downgraded or not get the full product. I doubt if the concept of frustrated contract would apply, either, as the failure to deliver the meal was under the control of the airline.

[SimonS1]

BA744Fan – I get what you are getting at here, I agree it is nonsense to have to provide CE and related catering on a 45 min flight to Amsterdam which is the same distance as a typical domestic flight.

The difficulty is by having different fleets for different distances you reduce flexibility for the airline. Easyjet etc have cleaned up by having one fleet, type etc for European flights – so much more flexible to operate etc.

Maybe there is a combination of solutions suggested on here around short haul (say up to 3 hours – economy only), mid haul (over 3 hours – has proper business seating) and long haul (CW).

[passionateflyer]

If BA agreed to keep Club Europe legroom at 34 inches and offer hot meal options on flights over 75 minutes at all times of day, it would likely pacify people enough to avoid having this angry dispute about poor value for money, is it necessary etc. Sure, people still wouldn’t be delighted with it but they would be a lot more content than they are now.

But, as is rather typical of BA management, they have reduced their costs to the absolute bare minimum they think they can get away with to keep the product viable – and whether it remains viable is even debatable. Hence this conversation.

It would be a quick fix but with BA management as it is, probably unlikely to happen. They’re killing CE off themselves.

[seanyjmuclhr]

Passionateflyer +1

We flew LGW-VRN yesterday in CE in seats 2A/2C and the legroom on the ex-bmi aircraft was ridiculous for the 1hr50 flight. We’re 6ft1 tall and there was zero legroom really for a so-called business class flight.

Contrast that with a recent CE flight to CDG and 34″ legroom for a 40 minute flight and it shows that BA continues to be inconsistent.

Legroom and comfort are paramount when paying CE fares.

[IanFromHKG]

KarlMarx, for frustration (the legal term) to apply, the fundamental purpose of the contract would have to be rendered impossible to achieve. Arguably, that purpose is travel. Failure to provide a meal would not frustrate the contract, or come anywhere close

[PegasusAir]

Sorry but just catching up with this having been flying CE this week. I suspect that a fundamental problem is that do BA or indeed any of the big hub carriers actually know how much they make or lose on European routes?
The issue is – how much of the long haul revenue (if any) do they credit the feeder flight with? If all you credit is the regional sector fare then it wont be profitable whatever you do and they will simply see the law of diminishing returns apply. This is accentuated with CE as the potential gain or loss is the incremental revenue on the CW or F long haul which could be huge. Although not on thread as it relates to domestic feed, when BA stopped the MAN-LGW flight they lost around £15K in long haul revenue pa from myself alone as my business involves me travelling on some leisure routes (always CW) that BA only fly from LGW. I now use other routes. They have to be very careful reducing service in CE particularly leg-room as this will hit their long haul revenue.

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