[millionsofmiles]

Sorry, but you are wrong in both statements:

– Is there any tourist or visitor who wnats to be subject to the eventually jovial good mood and thus be “pardoned 2 days later by the Ruler of Dubai”? Or maybe two months or years later? I dont think so.

– The woman in India is just one of many recent cases. I mean a concrete case where a Danish woman was taken back by her own secretary of state, also “pardoned” after lenghty discussions and public outrage in civilized countries.

Single or married women without accompaynying spouse going to one of these archaic countries always risk to be arrested for nothing, if she meets the bad mood of a local “policeman” and the Sharia “court” at that day.

[ExecPlatAA]

The absurd notion of one having a biased view point on account of being an “occasional” poster is preposterous. So what if many of us post occasionally – not every topic needs or deserves a response. This one does. I, for one (and looks like there are many others who feel the same way) will be voting with my wallet. No QR for me. I am OW Emerald and have enjoyed exceptional service from OW airlines over the past 15 years that I have been Emerald, but QR will not get my custom. Same applies to other vendors who have business practices that conflict with my moral compass – as it should be. Pretty smiling faces on board who are abused by predatory practices by an airline – NOT OK – even if the champagne is kept topped up. Its shocking to read such comments from presumably civilized people.

Net, net – boycott QR (and/or any offender of disagreeable practices) vote with your wallet and express indignation in a manner that hurts their bottom line.

Bravo Hermes1964 for an excellent thread and for your thought provoking posts.

[davey_boy]

EmeraldAA – Your loss at the end of the day. This will not have any impact on Qatar at they are now too well established as a leading airline of the world and competitively priced on fares.

I am very surprised that this thread has not thrown up more of a reaction from other members who support employment protection and working conditions for airline staff especially those of cabin crew. If this was BA at fault they would have been hung, drawn and quartered.

[ExecPlatAA]

No loss Davey_boy, and I beg to differ that consumer activism has no impact on established brands. I can cite many examples (at least in the US, and especially CA , the wolds 12th largest economy by itself) – Walmart, Target, Kathie Lee Clothes, Chick-Fil-A, Fair trade coffee, gas emission standards, sweat shop clothes, ..the list is long.
Don’t let any of this bother those for whom “topped up champers” is the main driver.

[thebigseats]

So we should vote with our wallets? Fine. But what about the One World alliance & all of the airlines in there that do business with QR, thus condoning QR’s so-called disgraceful employment practices? Should they be boycotted too as they perpetuate the problem? No? Thought not. Hell-fire, there’s some nonsense being spouted here.

[ExecPlatAA]

Hey thebigseats this is not nonsense, and plese refrain from identifying my posts as such. You dont agree – fine, dont vote with your wallet. I and others on this forum are entitled to express our opinions.

Just because the entire supply chain cannot be penalized in one action, does not mean individual elements should also be let go scot free. Every step makes a difference and in this day and age of social media prowess, this negative publicity can definately hurt.

[SimonS1]

Millionsofmiles – as I said twice now it wasn’t right what happened, then again I don’t suppose the Birmingham 6 wanted to spend 16 years in prison before their convictions were quashed either.

As for the Danish lady a couple of weeks ago I am honestly surprised, and find it odd that if she was released after “public outrage in civilised countries” a Google search doesn’t highlight the case and the “public outrage” and no-one here in Dubai that I have asked knows anything about it.

All I said in my original comments are that there are significant differences between UAE and say Saudi. I’ve lived in them both for about 8 years total but hey ho what would I know.

[thebigseats]

EmeraldAA – my intention was not to highlight you specifically of nonsense posts so apologies if it came across as an attack. IMHO though, there is nonsense being spouted within this thread but, as you say, we are ALL entitled to express our opinions.

Having spent time in Qatar & UAE myself & being involved to a degree in aviation/migrant labor workings I have more insight than most here I can assure you. Its not a perfect world & it never will be.

[rferguson]

Millionsofmiles
+1

You have hit the nail on the head in terms of the do’s and don’t in the middle east. They are applied inconsistently and totally depend on the mood of the police on the day.

I will give one example – Dubai. It is illegal to be drunk in public. Yet this is a destination that promotes itself as the ‘Benidorm’ of the middle east. People go there for stag parties and honeymoons. Hotels promotes all-you-can-drink champagne brunches on Saturdays. A crew colleague I know of got a little ‘tipsy’ left one of these functions and decided to walk to the main street to hail a taxi. In the 50 metres between the hotel lobby and the road he was arrested for being drunk in public and put in a local prison for three weeks.

Another case I am aware of involved a female colleague. This time while slipping in Abu Dhabi. Again, accompanied with a few of her crew went for drinks at one of the very exclusive hotel bars. She got chatting with a local Emirati man who drove a Ferrari and offered her a lift back to the crew hotel. En route the crew member claims she was sexually assulted by the local and then slapped hard when she declined his advances. When she reached the hotel she immediately contacted the Captain and together they called the police. The police told them to call the UK embassy before lodging a complaint with the local authorities. When they contacted the UK embassy they said under NO circumstances go to the police as the female crew member will be arrested. She would be breaking the law by accepting a ride from the local man alone. And also by walking from the hotel to the car park after drinking. The female crew member positioned home the next day, no action taken.

I think in a sense countries like Dubai and Abu Dhabi – and maybe even Qatar – are more dangerous for expat workers than say Saudi or Kuwait because they give an illusion that is completely untrue. That of a glamorous, cosmopolitan metropolis with many luxury bars and clubs and shopping malls. But the reality is that the laws can still be very strict and what is ok on a Monday this week is not ok on a Monday next week.

In Saudi everyone knows the score. And it’s not surprising that immigrant expat workers from the west are very thin on the ground. In Dubai it is a different matter. Decide to break into a bit of a dance while on the beach – it is illegal (dancing is only legal in licensed clubs – it is classed as ‘indecent and provocative’). Travel to Dubai and decide to ‘get intimate’ with your fiancé in the privacy of your hotel room – illegal (sexual relationships are illegal outside or marriage). Kissing or hugging your partner in public – illegal. Want to go to a fancy dress party dressed as the opposite sex – illegal.

This is why (IMHO) airlines like Qatar are totally incompatible with workers from Europe or the west. Because prospective cabin crew applicants from these areas of the world are likely to be applying for the job not because it is a lifeline for them to support their families but because they want to see the world and live an exciting expat life in the middle east.

I am in NO way saying that these rules are any more acceptable for poor immigrant workers from the subcontinent or eastern Europe. It’s just that I believe that workers from these parts of the world apply to Qatar with a different outlook. They want to go to the mid east, keep their heads down, work work work and send their money home. The fact that they can’t stay out overnight without permission or have a curfew to keep their clubbing to a minimum is probably without consequence to the majority of them.

And if you fly Qatar today, you will notice that the overwhelming majority of crew are from places like India, Thailand and the Ukraine. Ten years ago there were plenty of brits, aussies, French and germans. But now they are few and far between as they don’t last. They stay six months so they can then put their Qatar experience on their CV’s then apply to other airlines. Experience with QR is held in very high esteem by other airlines – they all know how hard the Qatar crews work and how strictly they are treated.

[Ahmad]

rferguson,

Thank you for your insightful post. It is spot on. Every country/culture has advantages and drawbacks. Utopia is only a dream. We all make choices every day about how we react to what we perceive as unjust. Some by taking affirmative action to stop it, others by simply commenting on it and yet others by thinking it wrong in their hearts but doing nothing about it. Of the posts on the topic so far, yours is the most enlightening on conditions in that region and puts this issue in its true perspective.

[canucklad]

Excellent post rferguson
My Dad, wasn’t happy at my sister (a bit of a party animal) taking a media job in Dubai, my Dad can be described as annoyingly liberal/socialist in his believes and thinking, but when it came to my sister he recognized the conflict in culture, and more importantly the risk due to the highly ambiguous behaviour towards females !
And interestingly, as the evidence grows I’m more likely to boycott QR because I’m an advocate of consumer power.
Companies soon change their ways at the very sniff of revenue loss!
If I had the time and resources I would start the “Boycott Steerage class airlines” campaign !

[ArthurDimlock]

“Boycott Steerage class airlines”

Is that a competitor to Yorkshire Airlines of Pace and Hale?

[millionsofmiles]

Simon, just one last coment to your statement above:

– of course there was no “public outrage” in Dubai….in Dubai you have a controlled press.
– If you have lived in Saudi and Dubai, fine, if you want to live in such environments. Still, things like mentioned dont happen in civilized countries, which neither Saudi nor the UAE are; in terms of Legal system, treatment of women, employment and social life these are non civilized countries.
.

[millionsofmiles]

and..it was an AUSTRIAN woman in Dubai who was raped and jailed for being raped.
Link in German to focus, a major serious news mag, from Jan 2014.

http://www.focus.de/panorama/welt/rund-250-000-unterschriften-petition-unterstuetzt-vergewaltigte-touristin-in-dubai_id_3579799.html

250.000 people signed a petition to better the mood of the ruler of Dubai and get her home.
So much to your beloved civilized Arab states.

Just google “dubai austrian tourist rape”..some worldwide coverage.

[BigDog.]

There have been similar cases

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23404042

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/courts/man-raped-woman-for-30-minutes-in-dubai-1.1284060

edit – I should have posted the link below and not the gulfnews one above

http://www.policymic.com/articles/42367/alicia-gali-rape-victim-who-was-jailed-for-being-assaulted-in-uae-tells-her-story

[Author]

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