[Xuluman]

There’s some truly disgusting posts from ‘respectable’ people here. How on earth can you begin to make excuses for this?

By denying it, claiming it’s false? What a cop out, face up to what you are supporting. And yes their former chief pilot confirmed to me yesterday morning that it is all true.

Do you think they spell out for the new recruits at the interview what life will be like, or will they paint a rosy picture with a big shiny video showing how happy everyone is there??

You say they should have researched, but I think you’ll find that there simply isn’t much written on the internet at all because people are too scared of their employers. And QR actively chase down any negative sites with law suits. Besides, people hear what they want to hear.

So what chance does some poor girl from Eastern Europe have to discover the truth….she is so desperate to support her family back home and escape her situation that she trusts the recruitment campaign.

Just how do you think young women end up being sold into the sex slave industry? Promised one thing, given another.

Do you think if this was widely known that QR would still be getting people lining up to join? Before this article most of you ‘savvy’ travellers didn’t know any of this was going on, so why would their target audience?

People say they should just leave if they don’t like it??? Firstly they can’t leave the country…no really, just understand that point, they are not allowed to leave without permission. They have their assets frozen and the money they have been working to save for their family back home will be gone.

They are threatened, bullied and intimidated. The only choice as alluded to in the article, is to withdraw what you can and do a runner downroute.

Again we are not talking about educated expats who have seen the world and may stand up for themselves, but young impressionable girls.

And yes Singapore may check rigorously that their girls have groomed themselves prior to duty…..but you compare that to being controlled in their free-time and in their homes 24/7?

You cannot possibly imagine living/working in this environment; it is so far away from our own life’s. For some of you to sit there fat dumb and happy, and cluelessly pour scorn on them, or worse simply dismissing it as a fairytale is disgusting.

[ArthurDimlock]

Plenty of outraged indignation here.

But you all still buy your iPhones, made in China with underpaid labour and Brazilian bananas at the supermarkets, with real risk of workers being bitten by wandering spiders and your posh fashion clothes made in Bangladesh, by exploited workers. Compared to these people and may more, the Qatar Airways cabin crew have it very good.

Get a realistic view on life, you sad hypocrits.

[FrasierForum]

Another interesting link for anyone wishing further guidance on this issue.. Certainly helped me make my mind up whether or not to fly QR again…

https://www.itfglobal.org/press-area/index.cfm/pressdetail/9707

[ilivetofly]

If things were so bad, I am confident people would leave. Arabian carriers do employ some dragons in management, but again, if the going gets tough..WALK AWAY.
Surely no one would sell their dignity and respect in order to serve teas all day ?

[millionsofmiles]

All airlines from Islamic countries face the dilemma of emplyoing women…although their religion wants women to be invisable slaves, in normal life. So in order to fulfil the wishes of passengers for female stewardesses…femaes are employed but are kept in financial, social and working conditions that are close to slavery.
It is not an economical, it is a cultural issue…where modern markerts and technology on one side and archaic religious and social environments clash…must clash.

[nmh1204]

ilivetofly- you don’t understand. You simply can’t “walk away”. You need permission to go back to your own country. You get put in jail for simply dating someone at the airline. The only way to leave the airline is to be fired. If you are not a Qatari national, you will be deported immediately if you re-enter Qatar after being fired by the airline.

[SimonS1]

I don’t think the position is as black and white as this thread suggests. Some sensible comments and a few ill informed ones as well.

The Gulf countries are a mixed bag. The UAE is fairly liberalised, however Qatar is a different situation particularly since last year’s change of Emir hence the row over the Taliban office and a major political spat with the UAE last week.

Throw into the mix the fact that people looking for jobs are sometimes quite desperate for employment and you can see why these situations occur.

I don’t think you can generalise, the EK types appear to exist in relative freedom, however QR is more like Saudia whose staff also live on compound and have less flexibility.

I must say ilivetofly your comments appear to be amongst the most ill-informed. In some places you cannot leave the country without an exit visa (even if you are head of a multinational) so the option of ‘walk away’ doesn’t exist, and yes, some people are from financial backgrounds where dignity and respect have to be sacrificed. Not everyone has a ‘benefits Britain’ culture to fall back on or the ability to Google all these things before applying.

[millionsofmiles]

No, NONE of these places is “fairly liberalized”.
Just remember the case of the danish woman some two weeks ago who was raped and was jailed because of sex ousidde marriage.
All these places are strictly and primitive Sharia below the glitzy surface.
The real upper parts of scoiety can live as they like…the rest is subject to the martial whims and changing moods of the ruling people. I know many filthyly rich people there..and they can live. the rest cant. It is islam that allows to apply whatever ruling you want to apply to any given case.

[SimonS1]

I did say relatively. Relatively to Qatar and Saudi. Not suggesting it is perfect.

I don’t recall reading about the case of a Danish woman two weeks ago? I’m in UAE now and haven’t heard anything about it. Got any links to the story?

[JohnHarper]

It’s just amazing how many of the occasional posters who pop up with anti any carrier but BA (who are of course known for their harmonious workplace relationships) have managed to find this thread and comment adversely on the basis of ignorance of the reality of life in Qatar and in support of one article of questionable value in a Swedish publication.

Simon & Millions are both right about Qatar – where I do a lot of business that brings wealth and jobs to the UK. Life is fairly restricted but I’m not either sure that the it is all wrong or that the (sexual) liberalism of the western world is all right.

The reality is when you visit another country you must respect its laws and customs. Any serious business traveler knows that. Presumably those with a difficulty about this will wish to opt out of any benefits of trade with the gulf states – and perhaps stop flying all together as they won’t wish to risk using gulf aviation fuel.

[millionsofmiles]

Simon:

Just quickly googled two links, I read it in the german press. The Danish minister of foreign relations personally intervened to get her back to Denmark. As soon as it comes to woen, these are failed primitive states.

http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2013/07/20/norwegian-woman-sentenced-to-jail-for-being-raped-in-uae/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2367152/Norwegian-woman-reported-raped-Dubai-jailed-16-months.html

The second one seems to be a new case, she is Norwegeina, the danish woman is home, as I mention above.
A woman is easy prey for rape in Arab states (and mentality)

[Alasdair]

So JohnHarper, “the reality is when you visit another country you must respect its laws and customs.”

Respect. The last time I looked this up meant “deep admiration for.” Is that what you might have or are telling others they must show when visiting countries that believe it is appropriate to behead based on sexuality, theft etc.. or indeed where any human right is not permitted to be exercised?

The answer in my book is no, and myself and many others would argue that too much goes unchallenged in this world.

In regard to Qatar Airways, working conditions are pitiful and unfortunately I doubt very much any Union or worker representation exists for them as we have the luxury of here in the west.

[JohnHarper]

Ah, Alasdair you’ve popped up too.

I had a quick scroll through your existing posts and while I will admit it was quick, I couldn’t find a single one that had anything positive to say about anything.

Do you know anything at first hand about working conditions at Qatar or are you just spouting ill informed rhetoric?

Unless you evidence the former, I’ll assume the latter.

[Hermes1964]

It’s been interesting reading the range of posts on this subject. I posted the link without much comment, partly because I wasn’t really sure what I thought about it at the time, and partly to see how others responded.

Since posting the link, and following comments which others have made, I did a bit of googling. It seems that this has been the subject of web chat for many years (I found one website with warning comments about employment and living conditions posted 6 years ago). It therefore would appear that the article is more likely than not substantially true.

But while there is sufficient information available to help prospective employees make informed decisions, I suspect that for many people from countries with very limited employment opportunities for young men and women QR may still seem like a good bet.

Does that make it right to treat employees in the way described? To my mind definitely not. Do the conditions of QR crews compare to those of other migrant workers, e.g. those working on the World Cup building sites? No. But abuse of employees can take many different forms.

Personally I feel very uncomfortable about what I have read and faced with considerable choice I don’t think I would now choose to fly QR. I’m sure there are plenty of inconsistencies in my own purchasing choices, and plenty of services/products I use which are not ethically sourced. And no doubt some of my more truculent fellow posters will quickly point that out to me. (For example I doubt airport workers in half of the world are particularly well treated.)

But maybe you have to make some choices where you can, so in the meantime I will.

[SimonS1]

Millionsofmiles

As I said before I don’t condone what happened, however in the interests of ensuring some balance I would highlight that the Norwegian woman in the case you mention was pardoned 2 days later by the Ruler of Dubai when it was clear there had been a miscarriage of justice.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/22/world/meast/uae-norway-rape-controversy/

Also that the only case I can find a couple of weeks ago involving a Danish lady and rape actually happened in India (not an Arab state or subject to Shariah law).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/10574079/Danish-woman-gang-raped-in-Delhi-after-asking-for-directions.html

Unless of course you are suggesting there was a second case also involving a Danish lady on which there appear to be no news reports??

[Author]

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