[FormerlyDoS]

Ian

I believe that QR have not stated that GCHs will get access to their F lounges. If they have, I couldn’t find it on their website.

There seems to be an omission on the oneworld site, which excludes the Concorde lounge and not the Premiuim terminal. If you use the oneworld lounge finder, it does not offer the lounges in the premium terminal at DOH.

The BA GF lounge is not a true F lounge, in the sense the QR DOH lounge is, the equivalent is the Concorde room; both of these are only available to pax travelling in F.

Yes, this leads to the odd distortion, such as getting J lounge access on a longer haul flight (e.g. using a A320) and getting F lounge access on a short haul flight using the same equipment, as QR sell F around the Gulf and J to Europe, but heyho.

The whole issue of BA F is a bit of a mess, as you have said yourself, the F cabin on BA does not relate to the F cabin on other oneworld members and there are so many GCH that the GF lounge is hardly an F lounge, it should really be renamed the ‘Gold’ lounge.

QR is a smart airline and it knows that it cannot sustain a differentiated service if it allows the hordes of GCH from other oneworld airlines into its premium lounges; I also think LP makes a very good point about bus accomodation.

BA may not choose to segregate F from Y when boarding on remote stands, but QR does and the whole model is built around small buses.

[FormerlyDoS]

freshaz – 06/11/2013 08:59 GMT

I understand the point you are making, but my experience of QR is that you get lounge access for the lcass you are travelling in.

e.g., if travelling F on an A320, around the Gulf (QR sells the front cabin as F, not J), then you get F access. If travelling in J (and you may be on the same A320 on a longer thin route) then you will get the J lounge.

Status does not come into it.

[IanFromHKG]

I agree with your post of 09:25, FDoS, but nonetheless QR are not playing by the oneworld rules as those rules are currently written. Capacity can be an issue in any lounge, which is why the oneworld rules permit refusal of entry to overcrowded lounges. To refuse access across the board, however, represents a failure to deliver on the oneworld promise

I did acknowledge in my post above that a distinction needs to be drawn for the premium terminal. That is no excuse, however, for emerald passengers being denied access to the QR lounge in LHR

[FormerlyDoS]

Ian

It is true that the QR lounge at LHR does come up on the lounge finder, so I cannot explain why access is being refused there.

[IanFromHKG]

As I said above, FDoS, emerald members in T5 still get a differentiated product offering by getting access to an F lounge – albeit we all know that it is in fact an emerald lounge. Furthermore, the oneworld access rules specifically exclude the Concorde Room. There is no such exclusion for QR’s lounges

Take a look here:
http://www.oneworld.com/ffp/lounge-access/

Concorde lounges are excluded. QR lounges are not. The site also says (emphasis added) :
“Members of oneworld airline frequent flyer programmes with the equivalent of oneworld Emerald or Sapphire tier status can use ANY lounge offered by ANY oneworld airline when departing on ANY flight marketed and operated by ANY oneworld member airline, REGARDLESS of cabin class being flown.
Emerald tier frequent flyers can use First Class, Business Class or frequent flyer lounges”

Take all this together and it is pretty clear that a oneworld emerald flying QR out of T4, for example, should be able to access the QR lounge – but QR are refusing to allow this. This looks to me like a pretty clear breach of oneworld rules, and a failure to deliver on the oneworld promise. And that’s just plain wrong…

EDITED TO NOTE: This was in response to a post which has now been edited, so this response may not make much sense as an apparent reply. But it did make sense as a response to the original version of the post!

[FormerlyDoS]

To move the conversation on, I believe that the current level of louge access is unsustainable in the longer term. Airfares are falling in relative terms and it is a hard market.

There is not enough margin on Y fares for the airlines to run high quality lounges based on status.

BA is dealing with this by cutting back on food and bev offers, QR seems to be restricting access and offering more basic lounges (e.g. the Oryx.)

I wonder if we might be moving towards a different model for Y travellers, such as the US PAYG offerings?

Could a paid for lounge be successfukl, with a token charge for Sapphire/Emerald and a larger fee for anyone else?

[FormerlyDoS]

Ian_from_HKG – 06/11/2013 09:40 GMT

I think our posts may have crossed, as I edited mine having consulted the oneworld lounge finder tool.

Having said that, what we do not know is what QR agreed with oneworld.

It could be either party that is at fault.

[IanFromHKG]

To respond to the point that some have made suggesting there is no reference to oneworld elites getting access to QR lounges, may I refer you to the following extract from http://www.qatarairways.com/hk/en/oneworld.page;

“Frequent-flyer benefits
As a oneworld traveller… Your frequent flyer status is recognised across all member airlines. And you are entitled to a range of benefits, which are provided according to the following oneworld tier levels, no matter which cabin class you are flying in, including:*
•Lounge access to some 550 lounges around the globe
….
Lounge access for Emerald and Sapphire tier members only. “

There is then a link to the oneworld page about FF benefits, which contains the wording quoted in my post above about lounge access for emeralds to any lounge save for certain stated exclusions – and QR lounges are NOT excluded

FDoS – to your latest point, oneworld rules are pretty clear and it would seem extraordinary for them to negotiate away one of the main benefits of emerald status. It *may* be that oneworld have failed to update their pages to exclude QR lounges – but I rather suspect that QR have signed up to oneworld access rules and are failing to honour them

[FormerlyDoS]

I think they can argue the DOH situation easily (and the loungefinder that supports the 550 lounge statement backs it up with the Oryx lounge, not the premium terminal), but the LHR one does seem odd, I agree.

[Str8Talking]

I agree with points from both sides of the argument but to add a couple more:

The Oryx and Silver lounges are both classed as First and Business class lounges. So QR are playing by the rules in providing Emerald members with a First Class lounge when flying in Economy (albeit a combined Business/First). As another poster mentioned, the problem is for Business Class passengers using the Premium Terminal. There’s nothing stopping a OW Emerald from disembarking on a bus to the main terminal to use the “First” class lounge. We are playing with words here, and no I don’t like the situation either, but the point I am trying to make is that QR are honouring their OW commitments in providing First Class Lounges to Emeralds and Business Class Lounges to Sapphires. The same is true for their use of the SkyTeam lounge at T4. It might not be what many elite members want or expect but I believe the problem stems from the issues still faced by the delay of moving to the new airport. It will be interesting to see how things change then.

As a footnote, maybe the other OW airlines are supportive of this, as it would possiby deter passengers from taking their business over to an obvious strong competitor/partner!

[StephenLondon]

Taken from the oneworld news page:

“oneworld Emerald, Sapphire and Ruby cardholders departing from Doha on other oneworld member airlines or flying Economy Class on Qatar Airways will be able to receive the privileges and benefits to which they are entitled – access to premium check-in facilities, lounges, etc., as appropriate – at Doha’s main passenger terminal. Facilities at Qatar Airways’ Premium Passenger Terminal at its Doha hub will continue to be accessible only by customers holding First Class or Business Class tickets on Qatar Airways.”

It does not clarify whether o/w Emerald card holders flying QR J would have access to QR F Lounge in the premium terminal. Perhaps the QR Social Media Team can return to clarify the situation.

[Tallinnman]

Ian_from_HKG – If you had travelled on QR and had access to their Premium Terminal and F Lounge then from my experience you would have been underwhelmed with the offering. The Business Lounge had better food offerings on my last visit and the service in the F lounge was poor.

The limo transfer is however an excellent service and I can see why QR would want to keep this to F pax only as per LH’s FCT.

I guess QR see their Premium Terminal as both a FCT and BCT.

It would appear the new airport, if it opens does not have a Premium Terminal and therefore potentially, a reason for this policy to continue. Would be interesting to hear QR’s official position on the new terminal for OW top tier access to its F lounge.

The whole episode is very poor communication by QR as now that it is explained I do not see what the problem is as you get access to the Skyteam lounge at T4 if travelling QR in Y (Okay I can kinda see why top tiers feel they should get access to the QR facility) and when transiting DOH you get access to a lounge albeit in the Y Terminal

[QatarAirwaysSocial]

You’re welcome. Your site is a fantastic source of information & debate. It’s a pleasure to be a reader and contributor.

[TheMidasGold]

This is a very simple issue that has been unnecessarily complicated.

To be quite direct, what you think or what the policy about LH or Singapore has is completely irrelevant.

– QR sent out marketing saying that One World members would have access to first class lounges

– The Oryx Lounge is NOT a first class lounge. Anyone can use it if they are happy to pay $40 and you cannot access it as a transit passenger unless you get a visa, clear immigration and then re-enter the airport

– You cannot on the one hand join One World and then unilaterally change your lounge policy to prevent one world emeralds using your first class lounge (where BA makes this exception – it is made clear on the OW website and in any event, they still offer a first class lounge to emeralds)

This is a really poor showing on QR’s part. They are being grubby and dishonest!

[MartynSinclair]

Surely a small (in terms of the size of the other members) and relatively new airline like Qatar have big marketing advantages joining an alliance. What I don’t understand is why they were allowed to join without have the rules read to them in a clear and concise manner and more importantly, agreeing to them.

Its a bit like a mouse being allowed into the executive lounge, but refuses to show any status…. and then allows his mates in too…

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