[JohnPhelanAustralia]

Great ideas LeTigre (well, maybe apart from the final two!). QF has this issue at both LHR and LAX. It is such a waste of expensive assets.

Until recently, QF did have a lunchtime flight out of LHR (and years ago had one ex LAX), but these have been moved to evening departures as “research” told them it was what all the pax wanted. I don’t agree, but there you have it.

[LeTigre]

What about a solution Air NZ style?

Operate A380s between LHR and LAX!

[Tete_de_cuvee]

http://www.news.com.au/business/virgin-australian-holdings-says-net-profit-doubles-to-518-million/story-e6frfm1i-1226279339963

Virgin’s net profit surges 118 per cent to $51.8 million

[craigwatson]

LeTigre, as far as I can see they are only there for around 15 hours each, arrive around 0600 and leave that afternoon at around 2100, which i think is quite standard for the A380, look at LH into JNB, its on the ground for 13 hours. AF is on the ground for 10 hours. Turn around times would be quite long with an aircraft this size, so realistically you would only get 1 return flight intra europe, for which you would need 1 full new crew… very expensive for a short haul flight, where most crews do 3-5 (6-10 sectors) return flights per day.

As to the olympics package, the corporate package will have already been purchased, so I cant imagine the tickets for these people have cost anything ( if not them, then 20 other QF clingons ), if they had a spare 20 seats on the special purpose aircraft then the airfare is also costing nothing, and I can bet the hotels were also sourced at hardly any extra cost ( just guessing as I dont know where they are putting them up ).

[Binman62]

The two A380 are indeed on the ground for over 14 each every day at LHR. Hardly sweating the assets.
Staff were told by AJ at a briefing in London that they gave up the popular midday flight as the “business traveller” wants only overnight flight!!!!.
He perhaps needs to talk to CX SQ and others about that.
And it is also true hat having handed back slots at LHR they were then unable to operate the Olympic charters as the is a strict moratorium on additional flights and capacity at LHR this summer. Hence the Operation to STN with additional staff being hired to cover this operation……and this after making over half the LHR staff redundant. Clearly an airline with its fingers firmly on the pulse.
There is almost no co operation with BA on the JSA route now…if there ever actually was with the BKK layover almost 4 hours. It is a shocking indictment on the current inept management and the sooner the JSA is cancelled the better for consumers who have seen fares double in 4 years and service plunge.

[RichHI1]

Flew Qantas once in First, enjoyed it, lhr hkg. If they think business travelers prefer red eyes they have lost the plot. I will do anything to avoid night flights.

[LeTigre]

It was obvious the JSA was having communication problems when Qantas introduced the A330 onto its Bangkok route, one of the three exchange points.

However, I still think that there is a better way, BA willing, for Qantas to operate a more economical route to LHR with better fleet utilisation. Emirates manage to achieve utilisation rates of 14+ on their fleet including the A380, so Qantas should try harder.

[LuganoPirate]

LeTigre, even VS leave their planes on the ground all day at JNB. It’s not actually as big an expense as thought since a plane and it’s engines depreciate by hours flown. It’s true there are crew costs associated but the alternatives are the plane landing too late for onward connections and so on.

I expect the cost of the Olympic trip will come out of the marketing budget and other airlines also offer their top tier passengers paid for trips etc. I know as I have benefitted in the past.

I made a back of envelope calculation Binman, and I come to a cost of about £ 250,000 and that’s assuming they pay top rates for everything. No doubt as an airline they’ll get big discounts.

[paulkaz]

Lugarno, as to the crew costs of QF, the cabin crew out of LHR are London based and do LHR – SIN return so no costs for the LHR layover.
I wish QF would re introduce the old boeing 707 route of LHR- JFK-MEX-PPT-NAN_SYD. So exoctic and that would wring the neck out of the A380 s flying time!
As to the future of QF international operations this piece of gossip on QF -EK code shares is interesting
http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-and-emirates-seeking-codeshare-alliance

[paulkaz]

As to the QF- BA JSA and the now discontinued flights out of LHR via HKG, a few weks ago QF were offering A$7000 return J tickets SYD -LHR if you bought 2 tickets and only if you flew via HKG using BA on the second leg. Perhaps BA is feeling the CX heat on this route and is getting some help from QF. So much for one world!

[PaulRWoods]

LeTigre: Qantas will certainly not agree.
I flew with them in December 2011 Singapore-London and was not allowed to have a look at the 1st class facilities (after landing, during disembarkation).
With the scaring the living daylight out of me by grounding their fleet and leaving around 78,000 passengers stranded that was yet another argument for not flying with Qantas ever again.
My flight in January 2012 Amsterdam-Brisbane was MAS Business Class and when they have their 380 I will fly via London with them too.

[Ozavanti]

PaulRWoods: Given what you say about QF grounding aircraft is a reason never to fly them again.. does that mean that you aren’t flying BA as well?

[Binman62]

The costs of keeping an aircraft on the ground all day may not be considerable but without details of BAA landing and parking charges it is difficult to quantify
However aircraft only make money when flying and filled with passengers. 14 hours is a long time for an airframe to be idle and there are two of them every day!
I too avoid night flights whenever possible. Day time is much preferable and as a 26 year veteran and over 30 round trips to OZ can attest that leaving LHR at lunchtime and arriving in Sydney at night is light years ahead of arriving at 5am, no matter what class you have travelled in, and I have done them all.
As for the grounding I am not sure what is meant by Ozavanti – 23/05/2012 05:54 GMT but to my knowledge BA never grounded the airline without warning. Yes there were strikes, but the Trades Unions followed due process and notice was provided. Qantas management on the other hand allowed unaccompanied minors and others to depart on flights and then dump them in midpoints with no warning, albeit that the grounding was a planned event
If using BA to OZ then revenue is shared with QF as a result of the JSA but there is not much I can do about that other than hope that the JSA either falls apart due to the internal conflicts that are apparent between the two carriers or the Australian government finally ends this monopoly and re-introduces some competition.

[LeTigre]

There is also depreciation and leasing costs that need to factored in.

If an aircraft is only operated 40% of the time, then the leasing and depreciation costs are quite disproportionate.

In my opinion, Qantas should not be so stupid as to think that they can serve customers who want an early morning arrival, business travellers who want an evening departure and actually run a profitable airline. One has to go: if the business travellers matter more, they should negotiate with BA for slots arriving in the afternoon and departing in the evening.

Qantas is always moaning about its competitors from the Gulf etc., whilst failing to solve the obvious issues. To achieve profitability sacrifices always have to be made. Operating the Kangaroo Route offers Qantas an unparalleled opportunity to achieve high fleet utilisation rates. It is after all an almost continuous 20-22 hour flight. If they solved the issue at Heathrow, they could achieve fleet utilisation on this route of around 85-90%. How much business will removing an early departure later lose, compared to saving $10,000s per day in efficiency savings?

[Hippocampus]

I can’t see how anyone can complain about a lack of competition between London and Australia. There probably isn’t another route in the world where there is so much choice of carriers and routings.

Without the JSA BA would probably have pulled out of Australia and as regards fares and timings remember that BA and Qantas are selling LHR-SIN and SIN-SYD as well as LHR-SYD and those two separate segments are probably of much more commercial value to BA and Qantas than LHR-SYD.

Also, charters etc during downroute time can be more trouble than their worth if aircraft go tech etc.

[Author]

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