[SimonS1]

Martyn – I suppose the flip side of that is that we don’t know what they were talking about. Perhaps the pilot had a genuine reason for discussion with the flight attendants? An issue with baggage? Something to do with the turnaround/return flight? Who knows.

I do find it interesting that the OP sat and watched it all for “around 7 minutes” without doing anything and then questioned it with a flight attendant. Why not get up after 2 or 3 minutes and ask the Captain directly?

I must say I agree with JohnHarper that it sounds a lot of something and nothing.

[CathayLoyalist2]

If the Captain had a problem or wanted to talk to the cabin crew then he could have used the intercom. The reinforcing of flight deck doors was done for a reason. Second a number of airlines since GermanWings have, so I understand, mandated that another crew member goes on to the flight deck if one of the pilot has to leave. To some of the posters who believe it is a storm in a teacup would they be ok if the cockpit door was left open all the time?.Ok the odds of something tragic happening to anyone of us in the circumstances outlined in this thread is very low. If the regulations are no leaving the flight deck and/or two at all times on the flight deck then they should be followed. Are we suggesting here flight deck crew pick and choose the regulations they will and will not follow?.

[SimonS1]

@CathayLoyalist2 – in relation to your last sentence, could you be specific on what regulations have not been followed here, please?

[CathayLoyalist2]

The specifc regulations are those that I referred to in my earlier post, as I understand them, i.e. no one person on their own on the flight deck and the flight deck door being kept shut at all times/opened for the least time possible. There are many other processes and regulations appertaining to completing a flight safely and whatever those regulations are they must be adhered to otherwise there is no point in having them. I am simply saying it is not for a captain or anyone to pick and choose. and AlexanderT makes some valid points in my opinion

[FDOS_UK]

“To some of the posters who believe it is a storm in a teacup would they be ok if the cockpit door was left open all the time?”

Yes.

[SimonS1]

@CathayLoyalist2 – you don’t detail any specific regulations that airlines have to comply with. The reason I ask is I do not believe there is any such “regulation”. My understanding is that airlines set their own policies in this area.

The regulation may exist in your mind, but that isn’t how the industry functions. In fact if the OP is contacting regulators he presumably will be able to tell us what rules have been broken and where we can find these documented.

[FDOS_UK]

The regs very much depend on the airspace the aircraft is within, the register it is on and the SOPs of the operator.

e.g. Air Malta, overflying France, no problem having a visitor in the flight deck, BA overflying France, not allowed. Air Malta in UK airspace, not allowed.

I don’t specifically know abut Aegean and Swiss airspace, but it would not surprise me if what the OP saw was perfectly lawful and within SOPs.

[CathayLoyalist2]

Well there are some pretty obvious regulations like as a walk about the aircraft checking for obvious damage, signing off the fuel taken on board, checking the weight parameters, pre-take off and landing checks and so on. Yes each airline may have it’s own interpretation of some ‘regulations’ and I did say “as I understand it/them”. Maybe someone in this community knows whether the integrity of the cockpit is common across all/most airlines. The circumstances given by AlexanderT should give rise to concern. I hope he gets a reply and it would be interesting to note it’s content.

[FDOS_UK]

“Maybe someone in this community knows whether the integrity of the cockpit is common across all/most airlines.”

That’s what I am trying to say, a number of airlines (that I am aware of) do not have SOPs or national regulations that forbid open door or visitor access.

I don’t have a exhaustive list and for fairly obvious reasons, I doubt there is one published anywhere.

With due respect, I don’t think that anyone on here knows for sure whether the incident AlexanderT saw was in contravention to any rules. Edited to add, but it would not surprise me if it was not.

Beyond that, it’s a matter of perception and personal risk assessment, so for me at least, it is non sequitur that the observation should give rise to any alarm, which is probably why the captain was so annoyed on landing.

[SimonS1]

@CathayLoyalist2

There is a combination here of ‘regulations’ (which by definition are usually set by a regulator) and airline rules/operating practices (which are established by the airline). These will often differ by country and by airline.

After the Germanwings incident a number of airlines changed their SOPs. However I’m not aware that any regulations were changed making this mandatory.

The point I am making is that when you come on here talking about people picking and choosing what regulations are to be followed (a point you made twice) you presumably have some evidence that the regulation actually exists in the first place. That is what we are missing from your contributions. Otherwise as you can appreciate it is entirely speculation.

It is what we are also missing from the OP, who has made various accusations about security beaches, violation of civil aviation regulations etc whilst sat for 7 minutes watching when he had a chance to ask the aircraft commander directly.

As FDOS says, it is quite possible that what the OP saw was quite lawful and within the airline’s operating rules.

[CathayLoyalist2]

I might well be transposing regulations and operating procedures but I doubt the relatives of the victims of the Germanwings tragedy would appreciate the distinction. Cockpit doors were reinforced for good reason and I haven’t been on an aircraft in the last 14+ years where they were not reinforced. So if a Captain can ,as has been stated, lawfully keep the door open etc if he/she so chooses, why bother reinforcing the doors in the first place. That sounds like “it will never happen to me “syndrome. We all have a choice and I would avoid any airline where deviating from regulations and/or operating procedures compromised a flights safety however slight..

[AlexanderT]

I doubt an open unattended cockpit door while passengers walk by can be within any serious airline’s operating rules. My knowledge of the rules and regulations, however, is only empirical — other than being a traveller and an enthusiast, I have no other connection to / knowledge of aviation. In my letter to the airline I write ‘what I believe is a security breach’ not ‘what is a security breach’.

I could have talked to the pilot directly, and I considered doing so, but at that point I didn’t feel comfortable entering the galley and talking to him about the open door while the door was open and he stood outside.

I don’t believe my reaction is disproportionate. I wrote a letter to the airline asking for clarifications. Any good citizen should have done the same. Of course there are costs involved that, who knows, may exceed the benefits. For instance, I did spend 30 minutes to write the letter and my letter will consume some resources of Aegean’s customer support department (at least). I may be wrong thinking that the unattended open door raises security concerns. But if I am not wrong, then my letter can be useful to the airline and our future travels.

Given that I had my letter written, I posted it on BT in order to seek advice and opinions (and NOT to shame A3). As many in here believe that the open door is a no-event I decided to postpone talking to the CAA until I hear back from Aegean.

[SimonS1]

@CathayLoyalist2 – Indeed I doubt the relatives of Germanwings passengers make the difference. In fact I would imagine they all wish the door had been left open, as it might have given their families a chance. Instead the repercussions of reinforced doors were there for all to see, as the pilot could not regain access.

In relation to your last sentence, of course you have not proven in this case that either regulations or SOPs were broken, or indeed that safety was compromised.

@AlexanderT – you seem to have taken a step back but I find this strange. When people come on here seeking views and opinions they normally says something like “this happened to me, what do people think?”. Instead you just posted a letter sent to Aegean. I wouldn’t hold your breath really.

[MartynSinclair]

I think its more about what the passengers sees rather than what the regulations actually state.

At a time when security quite rightly grabs the headlines, when passengers can be removed from flights for merely the way they look, for crew to be so paranoid about having their pictures taken if they happen to be in the background – for a pilot to be seen chatting to crew with an open flight deck door, its not acceptable.

I reported a similar incident on an Egypt Air flight a few years back, open flight deck door, pilots smoking – pilots walking though the aircraft having his hand kissed by passengers… I also wrote to Egypt Air but didn’t even get a response, despite a poster assuring me I would.

I support the OP for raising this with the airline, I think though contacting the authorities is a complete waste of time.

Bottom line though, don’t fly the airline again, as I wouldn’t fly and haven’t flown Egypt Air since…

[MrMichael]

As I said in my earlier post, I know not if the cockpit door being open or closed was legal/illegal. I do however it was against Aegean rules, otherwise why the bluster from the pilot after the flight to the OP. If the pilot had done nothing wrong then why the big concern over the OP having filmed it.

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