[AllOverTheGaff]

One of the 1st posts I replied to was on this very topic back-in-the-day. I can see both sides of the coin on this one as I am a single father myself and have traveled quite extensively with my daughter and always at the pointy end of the aircraft. She has eaten in countless Michelin Star restaurants and stayed in some of the finest hotels in the world – and I’ve never once had an issue with other guests complaining about her behaviour…..and I now know that time has passed as she is 22 soon to be 23! Simple things too like she knows not to put her feet on the chair in front at the cinema, she knows to always say please and thank you – and the things I am sure all of our kids know about being ‘decent’ humans.

Conversely, I’ve been on flights with some of the best adverts for contraception I’ve ever seen. I was asked by one lady in Virgin Upper Class if I could refrain from talking so her infant child could sleep – daytime flight sat next to the bar in Upper Class with a baby on the flight FOC. I’ve been kept awake by the cherubs of the moron parent doing as they please, when they please at a decibel level that drowns out even the noisiest Rolls Royce turbines.

What to do? I’d have woken the parents and asked them to control their child, politely. Simply stating facts. The issue there is that the me me me brigade care so little about anyone but themselves that often you are left with no choice but to suck-it-up. I don’t really know how much you can apportion to the cabin crew, they’re up all night regardless chatting in the galley (my BA experience) so don’t really care that much. But, sleep deprivation is not a nice thing, especially when you’ve paid for a night’s sleep and you have no other option.

All the above being said, I’ve also seen lots of lovely kids on flights who do as they are told and cause no fuss…..just because something is old fashioned does not make it de facto wrong – it makes it a value which many of today’s parents would do well to heed.

Older and grumpier regards to all,
AOTG.

15 users thanked author for this post.

cwoodward, Frederic, Ahmad, w8ster, Jacob, Polly, AFlyingDutchman, K1ngston, BPP, MartynSinclair, canucklad, openfly, capetonianm, Johnnyg, travelworld2

[openfly]

Never ever accept crew galley chat and noise during the night! Complain to the CSD/M and put in an Avios grabbing complaint via the on-board comments form…leaving it unsealed so that the CSD/M can read it!!

[canucklad]

[quote quote=945204]just because something is old fashioned does not make it de facto wrong[/quote]

Here, Here……straight to the heart of the matter : )

And I wonder if in the future our ire moves away from noisy kids keeping us and onto fellow adults taking advantage of the relatively new technologies ( On-board Wi-Fi ) to replicate their lounge behaviour at 35.000 ft at 3 in the morning

[BPP]

I abandoned Emirates from BHX some years ago due to the procession of passengers (presumably crew on gratis tickets) often with babies coming from Economy into Business to take any empty seats – as soon as the seat beltsigns went off. Same on two BA Club Europe flights ex LGW in 2017
Haven’t observed this recently on Qatar or EVA or indeed any flights from LHR, but have to say that there is still (like many I imagine) signficant aprehension when boarding to see if and where any children are.
On occasion, parental responsibility is sadly lacking!
BPP

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MartynSinclair

[givemeabreak]

In 2017 my wife and I endured a constant chorus of crying and tantrums from twenty-two month-old triplets on a flight from Abu Dhabi to Heathrow. Certainly something we didn’t expect in the Etihad Apartments! It shouldn’t have been a problem sleep wise with it being a daytime flight but our inbound flight from Sydney was a horror story due to severe turbulence resulting in little or no sleep, plus we had two further flights before arriving home completely shattered.

Naturally we complained as did the other passengers. The crew did speak to the mother and grandparents who were in charge of the triplets to no avail as the disturbance continued throughout the flight. Having paid a small fortune for the tickets we were not best pleased and I contacted Etihad customer support to complain and seek some form of compensation. The exchange of numerous emails with the support team was almost as harrowing as the flight itself but they eventually agreed to compensate us with a five figure sum of Etihad miles.

Following the birth of our first grandchild in Australia in November 2017 we have been down under many times since and encountered babies on every trip, usually in Business Class, with no problems whatsoever. I put this down to the fact that the parents acted like real and loving parents and were intent that their kids were never going to disturb the other passengers.

By pure coincidence our daughter phoned from Oz today with a possible fight itinerary for the family to travel home in February 2020 when our granddaughter will be 26 months old. Ordinarily, they would never undertake this long trip with a young child but they feel compelled to visit my eighty-nine year old mother for the first and possibly last time. I offered to upgrade their flights to business class but she flatly refused the offer stating that she had no intention of potentially disrupting the premium passengers and being the focus of unwanted attention. A very selfless and considerate young lady. How many people would turn down free business class seats on the worlds best airline?

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tomwjsimpson

[RHMAngel]

Oh dear, I’ve lost count of forum threads commenting on crying babies or disruptive young children in premium cabins.

Firstly I know of few crew regardless of European or normally better Far Eastern carriers who will reprimand the parents. They won’t or don’t regardless of other’s passenger comfort or safety.

Second, reading threads my annoyance is always with selfish self-entitled attitude of parents. Be that burried in IFE or sleeping. Hey selfish pigs, we or our organisations didn’t pay premium class fare to listen to your offspring or see them run riot in long haul in a premium cabin even if they the parents are doing their damndest to ignore their responsibility.

Lastly my view of a nightflight isn’t rocket science passengers expect to sleep, cabin lights dimmed, shame on parents whose offspring aren’t controlled…

Sadly the tight margins of airlines I can’t see adult only cabins ever coming into force if parents are paying full price for their children, airlines aren’t going to turn that away.

Culture and language barriers not to mention generational PC issues make it hard to plea what is decency or acceptable to one parent isn’t acceptable to another adult.

Noise cancellation head phones, good ear plugs and using your one of two complaint cards widely with the cabin staff.

Ps no one on Virgin Upper Class once got an apology from either cabin or mother (no father in sight) for crying child for half the duration of a long haul … Whether anyone claimed after who knows … Crew said they were helpless … And wouldn’t intervene.

It’ll get worse as disciplining and self entitlementothers’ on the trajectory of heading South ….

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givemeabreak

[canucklad]

[quote quote=945508]I offered to upgrade their flights to business class but she flatly refused the offer stating that she had no intention of potentially disrupting the premium passengers and being the focus of unwanted attention.[/quote]

Hi givemeabreak, I’d ask her to read the comments on here and then get her to re-think your generous offer.

A crying baby is a crying baby regardless of class of travel
My worst flight was on BA when I sat next to a mother with a small child, probably just too big to use the bassinettes, yet small enough to warrant not paying for a seat.

When we finally arrived in Singapore, I wasn’t sure who I felt more sorry for …….Me , the mother or the small child. I paid quite a lot for that flight to OZ, and importantly had to seriously save up to pay for it. And relatively speaking paid more of my income as a percentage towards sitting in Y , then most of the high flyers sitting in the pointy bit of the aircraft.

This isn’t a class issue, it’s a parenting issue.

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givemeabreak, AFlyingDutchman

[AFlyingDutchman]

[quote quote=945624]This isn’t a class issue, it’s a parenting issue.[/quote]

Perfectly said!

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TupeloKid, givemeabreak, BPP

[AlanOrton1]

Perhaps I am in the minority here but what appears to be the prevailing attitude of noisy / crying / disruptive children being entirely the fault of the parent is not one I subscribe to. I believe there can be many more nuances than just attaching the label of ‘bad parenting’.
For example a child with ADHD is often going to find it hard to sit still and be quiet on mid – long haul flight. They will want to get up, move about, make some noise. The best parent in the world can do all they can to mitigate, but may very well not be able to cause some sensitive soul to take umbrage with the child’s behaviour.

[AFlyingDutchman]

Alan, the point we are making is that the parent is at the least responsible to try. In the case from the OP, the parent paid no attention at all to the child, and instead just watched the IFE. Will special circumstances somethimes exist, sure, but even with a special needs child, a parent will at least be making an effort I am sure. In the case of the OP, no effort was made, and that is unacceptable.

[AllOverTheGaff]

[quote quote=945649]For example a child with ADHD is often going to find it hard to sit still and be quiet on mid – long haul flight. They will want to get up, move about, make some noise. The best parent in the world can do all they can to mitigate, but may very well not be able to cause some sensitive soul to take umbrage with the child’s behaviour.[/quote]

I am sure to be lampooned for this, nonetheless. I don’t know if this ADHD thing passes muster with me, none of my friends at school seemed to suffer from this, it seems an all to oft trotted out excuse for lazy or ineffective parenting. A lot of parents now want to be the child’s friend at the cost of teaching them right from wrong, and now we have 20+ year olds behaving like uncontrollable douchebags because their 35 year old parent wanted a doll to play with and be friends with. Parenting, being a rule-maker and disciplinarian are being eroded ….. fast.

Regardless of my thoughts on ADHD, (which I know someone will quote some medical expert on) for the sake of this convo, lets say that indeed young Freddie has ADHD – why in the name of all that is sane would you as a responsible person take that child into a business class cabin on a night flight? Can it really be so much about you that you’d inflict your child’s monstrous behaviour on a locked cabin full of strangers at a time when they are hoping to be asleep?

I said earlier in the thread, to me it is all about just having a modicum of respect for others, you don’t have to change a lot, just little things at a time and you can make the world a better place, if we all have the same “tough luck” attitude what a messy place the world will be – but – it is coming, I can see it now and I can see it a mile off…..the me me me’s are winning and claiming the PC high ground as their defence for any and all of their poor behaviour.

Heaven Help Us All!
Rgds.
AOTG.

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TupeloKid, Reeferman, Jacob, Sanran, givemeabreak, BPP, AFlyingDutchman

[NNoah16]

The key point here is parents being responsible.
I had a similar experience in Club World and I could clearly see that the mother was trying her best and clearly embarrassed that she could not control her child. This made me change from being angry to feeling sorry for her and trying to help her pacify her child which she was grateful for.

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AllOverTheGaff, AFlyingDutchman, givemeabreak

[esselle]

Not often that I get wound up by postings here but AOTG you really do need to educate yourself about ADHD before you make sweeping comments about it.

One of my daughters suffers from it, and has managed to cope with flying in F and J since she was a child (mid 30’s now) without ever making a nuisance of herself.

Ignorant comments like yours spoil what is otherwise a very well natured site.

[Johnnyg]

AOTG says that :-

I don’t know if this ADHD thing passes muster with me, none of my friends at school seemed to suffer from this, it seems an all to oft trotted out excuse for lazy or ineffective parenting.

How do you know that none of your friends suffered from it, how many times were you told that a child / friend was naughty.

Whats the difference between a misbehaving child or a well respected business person who has also paid thousands for a ticket but has kept others awake all night because they snore like a warthog ON steroids. ( I have witnessed and heard far more snorers than ADHD kids)

Like others have said, get a decent set of headphones. Or better still give others the headphones so they cant hear you moaning !!!

[GivingupBA]

[quote quote=945677] ….I could clearly see that the mother was trying her best…. This made me change from being angry to feeling sorry for her…. [/quote]

This thread puzzles me. I’ve been flying very often year after year for the last 47 years, in recent decades almost always in J / C, but can hardly remember even a single time a child disturbed me (apart from tiny babies crying for a few minutes, which didn’t bother me at all). Have I been lucky? – I don’t think so: the norm for me is well-behaved children of all ages: that’s what I see.

However the WORST thing I saw was on a BA flight from Oslo to LHR in Y. A boy aged about 4 cried a lot as the plane descended (with ear pain perhaps?) and a middle-aged man severely rebuked the woman (his mother I think), telling her to keep her boy quiet – he actually stood up and had a go at her – appalling comments in my opinion – I really wanted to speak with the woman and say I was sorry for her poor boy, but the moment passed and I couldn’t on that crowded flight.

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