[StandingThemUp]

“As a matter of interest and given the numbers who pass through the First Lounge in T5, what would you serve as an ideal (and realistic) menu for travellers? “

How about the catering in place on 30 April?

[AnthonyDunn]

@ openfly – 07/07/2013 16:13 GMT

In terms of food hygiene and safety, would it be legal repeatedly to reheat and to cool food? As knowingly doing something that could possibly cause an outbreak of food poisoning and prosecution for same, I rather doubt it.

[1nfrequent]

“I get the impression that the leftovers at the end of the day are put in the fridge and then heated up again and added to the next day. Its the same dish day after day. This means that there could be food in the dishes going back to May 2nd! Mmmm nice….”

You might have that impression but you’ve got no evidence to back it up and I would be absolutely amazed if that is the case because food hygiene law in the UK is such that all caterers know they have to throw out uneaten hot food at the end of the serving day – regardless of whether you could actually legitimately serve it up the next day. They can’t even donate it to charity.

I get the frustration with the catering changes, but comments like this aren’t particularly helpful.

1F

[IanFromHKG]

MartynSinclair – 07/07/2013 19:22 GMT : In answer to Tom in Scotland, about what food choices should be given in the lounge, without taking away your thunder, I think that would make an excellent thread heading. A lot of moaning, so what kind of food would we fussy so and so’s like to be seen in the lounges.

At one level I do understand why they go for slop – it doesn’t dry out, and generally speaking won’t “overcook” either. However, given the turnover they have in the lounges I would have thought that if they could get the timing right, then it would be relatively easy to serve something a lot more appetising. A carvery would be wonderful, and one only has to go to one of the lower-middle-market chain restaurants in the UK to see that joints on a carvery can keep going for a considerable period without spoiling. There is a carvery in the CX F lounge in HKG and I have never been put off by the fact that it is sitting under a heatlamp because it still always looks “fresh”.

How about a salad bar and a cold collation, rather as they have (on a smaller scale, of course!) in the BA lounge in BKK (with which, Martyn, you must be famliar).

How about a selection of pies? Or stir-fry (they could even have these prepared to order relatively easily as they do in the BA J lounge in ORD)?

Really, any catering company worth its salt (sorry, couldn’t resist) should be able to come up with something that is a lot more appetising than unidentifiable meat/veg in runny sauce

[TominScotland]

In fairness, Ian, the First Lounge in T5 has had tasty pies and a variety of salads/ cold meats/ cheeses when I have been there recently. A carvery is an excellent idea for peak times but I cannot see it as sustainable over the whole day.

I think that the constant use of the pejorative term ‘slop’ is unfortunate here as the aforesaid ‘slop’ is, IMHO, generally tasty and appealing when combined with rice or a baked potato. Might be worth reflecting that variants of this ‘slop’ are mainstays in restaurants throughout Asia and elsewhere and one form (curry) is the most popular eating out option in the UK.

[IanFromHKG]

I take your point, Tom, but I think the word is being used in the context of food that is unnecessarily runny! And personally, and I am only speaking personally, I tend not to find that sort of food appealing so don’t go on to see whether it is in fact tasty!

[StandingThemUp]

“I think that the constant use of the pejorative term ‘slop’ is unfortunate here as the aforesaid ‘slop’ is, IMHO, generally tasty and appealing when combined with rice or a baked potato.”

Tom, I had some in the GC recently. It was pretty tasteless, had little meat in it and had the consistency of gloop.

Would you feel happier with a description of gruel?

[MartynSinclair]

The time of day is really important and the BKK lounge is perfect. I generally eat at the hotel before I go to the airport for the 00.20 BA 10. There is then a salad/snack food in the lounge and a full service on the aircraft.

I think the food offering during the day is probably far more important because people are running between meetings, running to catch flights and eating breakfast / lunch during the day is probably more important.

Then of course you have to consider the vast array of different eating habits.

[StephenLondon]

I’m all for variety, and would welcome seeing some changes to the catering options available.

But we need to remember that at LHR, BA are contending with far greater numbers than appear in the QF BKK lounge, or the ORD pfd options. Also, passenger numbers vary daily, and even hourly depending on operations. It would be nigh on impossible to plan for much other than mass catering, sadly. We must also remember that BA are just tenants in T5, a building built (at the time by BAA, now LHR Ltd.) to maximize rental yield for the owner. In its construction, according to a catering manager on site, the kitchens for the lounges are unbelievably small. To cater differently would require additional kitchen space, which would need to be conjured up from somewhere. That would mean additional cost, not something popular with BA these days.

So taking all of these parameters in, I think we would need to focus on food that is palatable, but something that is easy for mass catering, something that won’t dry out under heat, and that appeals to a wide audience. Hence the dishes currently on offer, but I’m sure BA would be open to alternative suggestions. They would have to be credible ideas with the understanding that the dishs would be cooked offsite, transported to T5, and then stored for a brief while before demand rises and they are offered for consumption to passengers in the lounge. It is not as easy as people may think. The kitchen facilities in T5 are no more than small finishing kitchens, so major last-minute cooking is simply not an option.

I vote for more healthy options, esp. in summer (such as crudite platters, which they can do quite well in the US), salad-bar type items so as passengers we can compose our own meal. This is where sliced meats and cheeses, or even poached fish work well, and is an alternative to those watching their carb intake.

For hot foods, Thai curries can be excellent (be they red, green, massaman, penang style, etc.), as they can be held under heat for a while, and have some terrific flavour. They can be veggie as well as meat, too. Pastas can be super on a buffet (scope out any Italian ski resort at lunchtime) – something other than ubiquitous tomato sauce would be nice, and things like filled tortellini can work well (even cold on a salad buffet – nice). Baked pastas can hold for a while (lasagne) and permit lots of variety (again, meat or veggie), as can a moussaka. A tagine might work well, too (although it could dry out).

Presentation needs to be appetising. Look at Japanese food – you eat first with your eyes, so even garnish needs to be added to the food on offer in the lounges – and this has been lacking for quite some time, regardless of catering supplier. If it looks nice, that is usually 50% of the battle trying to get someone to eat your dish.

Anyone have other thoughts? Do remember the parameters above.

[canucklad]

I’ve never fully understood why airlines insist on ingredients’ that threaten my nasal sensitivities in a confined space ….

There is nothing worse than sitting on an aircraft with flatulence and, or garlic breath…..

Keep it simple and tasty….

[IanFromHKG]

Stephen, I am sorry but I don’t buy into the “it’s mass catering so it’s too hard” argument. If it can be done on a small scale, all you are doing is multiplying the quantities. The scale, in fact, makes it much easier to predict throughput and reduces wastage.

nd I also struggle with the “kitchens are too small” argument. I have been at functions where individually plated meals of restaurant quality are produced en masse from tiny kitchens – I was once given a tour of the kitchens at the Royal Hong Kong Yacht Club and was staggered at how small they were – and yet for their annual ball they produce over one thousand meals all in one go. It can be done…

[StandingThemUp]

StephenLondon – 08/07/2013 09:12 GMT

I don’t think I’m alone in thinking it was perfectly acceptable pre change.

The gruel I tried in GC South, 2 weeks ago, was not in the same league as the curry/pasta and other sauces, pre-changeover.

Hot food was also available throughout the day, pre change.

All I’d like is the old menu back.

[Papillion53]

Canucklad – absolutely! The absolute last thing I would want to eat before a long flight (or any flight) would be a curry! Thankfully these days I fortunate enough to be able to travel in premium cabins, but back in the day when I was always doon the back, I would add that the state of the loos after mass eating of curry or any spicy food is not a pleasant memory!

It is not just prep areas in a kitchen, you also have to bear in mind how much room they have for food storage areas e.g. Fridge space, freezer space, larders. A prep kitchen can be quite small but once this food is ready to be served, it does also need somewhere to be stored until such time it is needed out on the buffet. And if they do just have finishing kitchens, then I imagine they have decent storage facilities – they would need to have! The problem is they must have someone constantly checking the buffet – and if they don’t have that, then a buffet simply does not work.

The argument could also be made that food should be made and then be put straight out on the buffet, but in reality and practice this would never happen, as then you run the risk of running out, so you always need to have some ready to go “from the back”. And certainly with just finishing kitchens would not be the case.

I am not a big fan of buffets, simply because most people who eat from them are so uneducated in buffet etiquette, that it beggars belief.

For example – tongs left in dishes of food; one set of tongs used to pick up everything, even though there are separate tongs for each dish; picking food up with their fingers, and worse still touching food and putting it back; sneezing over food; licking fingers then touching food; and how often have you seen the spoon for the baked beans floating in amongst the mushrooms? And people putting their dirty plates back on the buffet counter!

And this is just the adults …. 😉 🙂

Function catering is a totally different beast to all day catering as Function food needs to be ready and served at the same time for everyone. I have seen the minute galleys on board the Northern Belle (orient express) train, but again the difference is that food is sent out for one sitting. There is very little storage “holding” space in these galleys. They simply don’t need it.

It is not as easy as some may think. If you don’t have the correct facilities, then you will struggle from day one.

[StephenLondon]

Well the old menu certainly is not making a come-back. What I was trying to ask is for suggestions from people of what they would like to eat, but keep in mind the parameters that BA (at least at T5) are working with.

I forgot to mention that things just can’t get rushed in last minute – everything going airside needs a security check – and we all know how that works when it comes to LHR Ltd.

Also, I asked about hot food not being out all afternoon, and the response was this was not being eaten and large quantities were being thrown away each afternoon. Even with it being removed, Frank VdP said to Tom Otley that update on food is up 70%…so someone is eating it somewhere!

As Papillon says, function catering is totally different to all-day catering. And as for storage, next time you’re in the CCR or FLounge, look through the window into the kitchen…they are very small. One catering manager showed me through from CCR to FL…not much space at all (and remember, there is storage, refrigeration, small cooking areas [again, limited by LHR], dishwashing facilities…it isn’t as easy as people think it might be.

[millionsofmiles]

@StephenLondon:

“What I was trying to ask is for suggestions from people of what they would like to eat, but keep in mind the parameters that BA (at least at T5) are working with.”

Your question is a closed question. “The parameters that BA are working with” is a ridiculous statement and allows to just kill ANY argument.
Finally, it is not about any other parameter than COST to BA. It seems they NEED to make as cheap as possible with some mudfood/slop sitting all day.
Any caterer at tle level of a McD would be able to serve anything in any quantity..if he wanted and had the order to do so.
It is just a CHEAPO thing.

As a tip: Look at FRA, LH First Class lounges: fresh food, a la carte AND buffet. Why is this possible? Because they are NOT cheapos.

[Author]

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