[fatbear]

As a product of a comprehensive, I have to say Billaazen is a complete tosser

I suggest he f*&@! off

[handbag]

rferguson – 03/11/2014 10:31 GMT

openfly: the solution to this is to do what I have been saying for years – mix the legacy and MF crews together. Both can bring their respective attributes. MF will inject a bit of youthfulness and enthusiasm and legacy a bit of experience and maturity.

I think the majority of crew could not agree more with the above comments.

[BigDog.]

RFerguson and Handbag – talking to cabin crew you are right and would work for both the cabin crew and imo the passengers who would benefit from an injection of experience and professionalism from one side and youth and enthusiasm on the other.

However imo it would not work for BA management as methinks establishing mixed fleet was more about driving a coach and horses through the terms and conditions legacy crew had negotiated, over many years, than the payment differentials.

For years prior to m/f being established, new cabin crew (legacy)recruits were already seeing significantly lower base/starting salaries offered. It would not have taken much to get to the starting levels of Virgin etc without creating a separate cabin crew group/fleet.

The problem is with the huge difference in terms/conditions and also the anomalies a merger would create with the fast-track promotion incentive often available to m/f due to the huge turnover.

Methinks the bean counters are still in control and probably don’t add back in the huge extra recruitment, training, equipping costs and more subjective cost of inconsistency in order to still justify their ill thought through/naïve cost saving initiatives.

For most groups, divide and rule has been one of the cornerstones of the current regime and will continue until things change at the top.

[canucklad]

A couple of questions to both handbag and rferguson, on the back of BigDogs astute comments above and your excellent balanced posts ……

1) From a scheduling point of view, do you think it is easier to maintain the division of crew? Taking into account downtime whilst away from LHR etc
2) As I mentioned earlier, I find it fascinating that your bosses firmly believe in their apartheid approach, so what do believe they think are the benefits to BA ?

My personal interest is purely from a selfish work point of view.

[handbag]

Canucklad in answer to your question. In my opinion Big Dog is correct

“However imo it would not work for BA management as methinks establishing mixed fleet was more about driving a coach and horses through the terms and conditions legacy crew had negotiated, over many years, than the payment differentials. “

On legacy there are many different pay scales and are still referred to by us, as old and new contract whereby the crew are paid vastly different amounts. Not sure , but it must be 10 years or more since the “new contract” were employed on legacy, but it is still referred to on a regular basis , when discussing anything to do with pay.

Cannot therefore see why they would have made a new fleet, if it was not about terms and conditions rather than pay as they had already done this quite drastically on previous occasions.

I do not believe scheduling is easier , but believe that is outweighed by the different terms and conditions.

[rferguson]

Canucklad i’ve never really understood the mentality behind the ‘apartheid approach’ that BA used with Mixed Fleet. And it doesn’t just exist on the aircraft – for example the apartheid approach extends to training and recruitment with Mixed Fleet and Legacy recruiting/training ‘their own’. Even singling them out with the uniform hat – WHY? Have you ever heard of something so stupid?

I’ve mentioned before the reasons why I believe Mixed Fleet and Legacy crews should work together. I’ve even asked senior management why it’s not possible to. The answer I got was ‘we cannot have different people working on different T&C’s on the same aircraft’. I don’t think this is true as we had ‘temps’ for some time before Mixed Fleet was started working more or less along the same lines of Mixed Fleet – they did a mix of long and short haul, were paid an elapsed hourly rate and had less days off.

Where I think BA are worried is in the more senior ranks taking control of a ‘legacy’ crew. My friend is a CSM on Mixed Fleet. I am on a Legacy post ’97 contract as a lowly steward. I take home around 10% more than him. A purser (second in charge) on legacy fleet or someone on the pre ’97 contract takes home around 25% more than I do. A Purser at the top of the purser legacy pay scale would probably take home around double what a MF CSM would. Add to that when we land from say a Bangkok trip the legacy crew would go onto four days off. The Mixed Fleet crew would be entitled to two. It’s not difficult to see how animosity could flare.

It should also be remembered that Mixed Fleet was the baby of two managers within the cabin crew department that have now ‘moved on’ to other areas of the company. Do their replacements think the ‘three fleets at one base’ is a sensible approach? I don’t know. Of course they want to retain the benefits of Mixed Fleet – the cost savings are enormous.

So has Mixed Fleet been a success? Yes and no. Yes, because it has saved BA/IAG millions in costs. But BA’s sums have not quite panned out as has hoped. At Mixed Fleets inception BA estimated that 4500 of the crew community would be made up of Mixed Fleet crew by the end of 2014. They currently number around 2500. Why haven’t their numbers been met? The high turnover isn’t the biggest problem. The biggest problem they have is that their forecast of Legacy fleet leaving the company, going part time, taking redundancy etc etc has not materialised. Legacy fleet crew are not moving. So what are BA to do? Options are limited.

Morale amongst the Mixed Fleet crew is also dreadful. They do not feel valued and are even balloting on strike action. The other miscalculation BA seem to have made is how long they expected Mixed Fleet crew to stay – with the desire a period of two years. But what has happened is there seems to be two extremes – many leave within weeks or months of being trained. And others want a long term flying career with BA – and for improved renumeration and terms.

**These are my personal views only**

[travelworld2]

rferguson-Thank you as always for your insightful comments. Do Mixed Fleet get a different, lesser allowance on long haul layover en route than Legacy?

[openfly]

@rferguson……hi, you say that “mixed fleet have provided millions of pounds of savings”. That is exactly why mixed fleet exists. BA senior management is always pursuaded by the bean counters that cost savings are paramount irrespective of the damage to the customer service, and they get away with it. Cost savings contribute to their bonuses. Passengers are the nuisance factor in their calculations.

Your other point regarding “mixed fleet working with legacy on the same aircraft”. It could possibly work on SH but not on LH. For example, on a CPT, would part of the crew(legacy) have two local nights, and the other (mixed fleet) part have just one night? It would be a crewing nightmare.

As you say, the two “managers” who had this disastrous brainwave have moved on. Same old story at BA!

The only practical, realistic, answer is to put all the crew on the full legacy contract, including the Gatwick crews. That would be highly contentious but sensible. The extra cost could come from the excess fuel charge that BA is now receiving from the 50% reduction in fuel costs.

[rferguson]

Openfly I agree with you, that would be ideal. But let’s just say it – the fuel surcharge is another form of profit for BA. BA will not give it up.

There ARE some crew that fly alongside their legacy colleagues on different T&C’s actually. The BA Singapore base has also been split into it’s own form of legacy and Mixed Fleet. The Mixed Fleet equivalents actually fly with the Mixed Fleet crews SIN-LHR/SYD but with the legacy crews LHR-CTU-LHR. When flying with the legacy crews they will have one night in CTU where the timetable permits it (summer) whereas the legacy crews will have three nights.

Well well….BA’s ‘breath of fresh air’ who’s task was to reignite BA’s passion for customer service launching the ‘To Fly To Serve’ campaign and ‘to put the customer at the heart of everything we do’ is leaving BA. It had been rumoured on some staff forums for a couple weeks that he had fallen out with the senior members of IAG over differences in views of spending on customer service improvements etc and had been on ‘gardening leave’ for some time. A shame…..Frank was a straight talking dutchman that was known to be well – frank. Obviously too much for the BA old guard.

***These are my personal opinions only***

[openfly]

@rferguson.

The fuel surcharge may have to be reviewed and will appear in another form. My MP is actively asking the ministers to not only to address the fuel pump pricing, but I have it in writing from him that he is demanding that the same ministers take a good hard look at the fuel surcharge.

This, of course, will mess up the long-haul Avios ticket pricing!

I am still of the opinion that giving every cabin crew member a legacy crew contract will magically change the atmosphere on the aircraft. It would be money well invested. I may be wrong…I was once!!!

[BigDog.]

Wrt Frank VP (BA MD of Customer Experience and Brands) – departure may be more willingly headhunted to KPN (a Dutch equivalent of BT+cellular) than ousted, though one can only speculate what underlying cause of the willingness.

Inconsistency is an oft commented upon theme with BA- hardly surprising though with the levels of turnover throughout the organisation especially with each senior manager wanting to leave their own mark/impression. Methinks as economies recover and job opportunities improve more talent will stream away from autocratic bullying leaders.

Imo the most generally consistent service within BA is provided by legacy crews – amazing that longevity has a direct relationship with consistency – maybe BA could learn something 😉

[canucklad]

Of course another way of looking at the departure of FVP is simply that he wasn’t up to the job. In the same way as a football manager gets moved on from a club when he fails to deliver.

If you think about a badly run football club, the people who hold the purse strings expect results to be delivered regardless of the competition. So they hire a manager, they negotiate hard with agents and bring in mercenaries to play for the club, and then blame the manger when those same players (sorry mercenaries) fall short of the expected standard and the team starts to deliver unacceptable results. What is often quoted as “ He lost the dressing room”.

[greyhawkgeoff]

for the record Frank VP was present at last Fridays Capital Markets Day along with countless top guys at IAG. Seems that he is not on gardening leave at a minimum.

Re fuel surcharges, on October 31 IAG advised the market that they were 91% hedged this Q, at prices well above the newly depressed spot price. Indeed for the next 12 months they were 74% hedged at 9.8% over a spot price of $810.metric tonne.

Equally the benefit of lower prices on the non hedged purchases is now offset to some extent by the growing strength of the dollar making fuel more expensive. (source open market day presentation).

Better minds than mine can see the two influences at work in opposite directions, but to suggest as openfly does that pump prices for refined petrol and diesel equate to what should happen to avgas/kerosene prices around the world is at best simplistic.

And IAG would be heavily criticised here and elsewhere if they did not substantially mitigate risk of a spike in prices by not hedging.

[rferguson]

I don’t think we will ever find out if Frank was pushed/jumped/headhunted. There would have been contracts written up for neither side to speak of the other and more than likely a golden handshake.

Frank was generally viewed very positively by employees on the front line. He came to BA with a much more ‘open and direct’ attitude than we generally find at BA. His communications tended to be ‘to the point’ instead of the usual management mumbo jumbo we get. And he was quick to acknowledge BA’s short falls instead of head in the clouds ‘everything is great’.

He came from a luxury hotel chain and I don’t know, maybe he thought BA would be similar as an airline from the customer perspective – spend some money, get some new products, attract new customers, retain exisiting ones. What he got instead (whether he knew in advance of taking the job or not) was a task of ‘improve the customer experience but reduce costs too’.

It always seems to be the way of the forward thinking innovative managers. We had an amazing lady join us from John Lewis as an ‘area manager’ for Cabin crew. Not on the same level as Frank, but a relatively senior position. Again she threw herself in, engaged employees, was respected and admired. She tried hard to improve things and had lots of good ideas. But couldn’t get anything past the ‘BA wall’ as she described it. She was head hunted within ten months of her role at BA and left.

**These are my personal opinions only**

[Capetown2k]

I had a issue with a HKG flight and sent FVP an email on a sunday afternoon complaining about it

within 1hr he had emailed me back with a solution and his PA on the monday morning had moved me on to another flight

my view is he will be greatly missed

[Author]

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