[VKsNemesis]

Why is it that BA DON’T give their crews a pay rise? It’s not as if the airline is loss-making, like Air India…or Kingfisher!

[Flyboy18]

Well I’m not sure how I can be racist towards everyone?!!
I’m legacy crew just so you know. And with regards to a pay rise…I don’t know where you get your information from, but only last month we had a back dated pay rise. So your information is wrong, sorry about that.
MrMicheal…I completely agree with you. This two tier system is not good for the customer or for the crew. Its only good for BA’s bottom line and that is all that the board is interested in. It’s a shame. But I will still be warm and engaging.

[fatbear]

scott72, just ignore the troll, it’s total drivel, don’t bite…..

[rferguson]

I feel sorry for my colleagues on Mixed Fleet. They are on one of the worst pay deals in the industry and work hard. The fact is experienced crew do not leave other ‘premium’ airlines to come to BA anymore. They stay put as they know they will lose money by joining BA. It’s a shame. We used to attract talent from Virgin, Qantas, JAL, ANA….now they know not to touch BA.

I read many a struggling Mixed Fleet CSM posting on Yammer how they only have three or four out of their thirteen or fourteen crew that have three months or more experience at BA. This kind of dynamic obviously leads to all sorts of issues onboard. The few more experienced crew are left to train their new colleagues ‘on the job’. This is fine when it is one or two newbies. But the majority of the crew? Not on.

Morale is desperate. There was a company wide pay increase this year – yet Mixed Fleet was exempt. Legacy fleet crews enjoy all sorts of union negotiated ‘scheduling agreements’. Mixed Fleet have none. The fact is, they work 30% harder for 50% less money. I am legacy fleet main crew (post ’97 contract) and easily take home more than a Mixed Fleet CSM.

Of course all of the above leads to a different mindset amongst the Mixed Fleet crews. They are not interested in joining BA for the long term – they are here for a year or two and then they leave. Which of course is what BA wants. A healthy turnover avoiding the pitfalls of ageing crew wanting mortgages and getting pregnant and taking maternity leave or long term illness. But what this leads to is that the Mixed Fleet crew seem to have absolutely zero loyalty to the company.

IMHO it is a HUGE mistake that Mixed Fleet and legacy crews fly separately. Legacy crew have this pitfalls as well – they can appear less enthusiastic and motivated than some of the young guys on Mixed Fleet. Yet we bring maturity and experience. So what could not be better than mixing these two attributes?

[VKsNemesis]

It appears that we’re all caught up in a viscious circle of sorts: BA treats its Mixed Fleet staff with contempt and they in turn just about meet the minimum standards of courtesy required by international carriers and the passengers end up avoiding BA in the future, thus reducing BA’s revenue.

[SimonS1]

Tough one really. It’s a competitive industry and BA can’t compete if they pay their staff twice what Emirates, Qatar, Easyjet etc pay.

My expectations are never very high when I get on a BA flight. Sometimes you get people who go out of their way to help, others just go through the motions. To be fair I don’t think BA is unique though, Emirates is very inconsistent when it comes to service.

You are absolutely right rferguson. You need a mix. People in premium cabins expect a level of service that comes with experience and maturity. If you are paying base level fares in Y then I think you must expect less experience etc.

[MrMichael]

An issue we have not touched on is flight safety. Hopefully we never have to find out, but are mixed fleet crew as good in an emergency as their legacy colleagues? There is plenty of evidence in the passenger shipping industry that cheap crew equals poor emergency response. Too many times we hear of the crew bolting for the lifeboats leaving the passengers to fend for themselves.

I imagine the training for the cabin crew is the same, but is the commitment to the airline and passengers as rferguson alludes to. If that failure of motivation for good service crosses over to aircraft evacuation then the problem is huge. it does not worry me greatly as incidents of evacuation are rare (I have never had to) but if ever I do, I think I may prefer a legacy crew to help me along.

[Hermes1964]

I’ve only flown with Mixed Fleet once – a few years ago to San Diego. Interestingly that crew was by no means young in fact I’d have said the age distribution was what you might typically expect on a 777 with legacy crew. In terms of service it felt pretty much like any other BA flight, and to be honest if it weren’t for the hats I’ve have never known.

Has the demographic of the Mixed Fleet changed since it was first set up?
That BA TV documentary and recent posts, suggests it largely comprises a bunch of rather gauche and dressed up kids who should be doing something else. But from my experience that wasn’t always the case.

[BigDog.]

Well Mr. Michael, I understand with legacy crew the recruitment bar was set far, far higher (degrees, languages, evidenced service industry experience) and the training longer.

It was interesting with the recent inside docudrama that the appearance/grooming of the recruits was often noted whilst there was relatively little about the safety training – priorities or viewer interest driven?

An article from 2 years ago should have raised concerns as to the recruitment, personality profiling, training and performance management processes which allowed this to happen…..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2142538/British-Airways-steward-faces-jail-admitting-leaving-bomb-hoax-passenger-jet-s-toilet-door-mid-flight.html

Apparently it transpired the fellow also wished to impress his seniors by demonstrating how calmly he could manage a highly stressful situation.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ Hermes1964 – 18/10/2014 09:37 GMT
@ BigDog. – 18/10/2014 11:33 GMT

Actually, the recent docudrama (an entirely apposite epithet!) was so crass that I would be rather loath to draw any adverse conclusions from it about the ability of MF crew to carry out safety procedures. Rather, I would be fully prepared to draw the conclusion that the BBC’s commissioning editor preferred to hand over licence fee payers’ cash to produce prime-time dross in the East Enders mould rather than a serious insight into what it takes to make an airline operate.

[openfly]

Regarding safety procedures…..taxying in at LHR upper deck seat 62A. The order to set “doors to manual and cross check” came on the PA. I watched one of the two crew members at the emergency exit jump seat put both doors to manual, while the other crew member just looked out of the window. So much for complying with the order, and safety. I mentioned it to the CSM at the doorway….a mid-fleet crew!

[Swissdiver]

Out of curiosity: when recruited and trained, a new crew member is automatically incorporated into the mixed fleet?

[rferguson]

Swissdiver thats right. Any crew member recruited in the last three or so years at LHR is incorporated into Mixed Fleet. There is no further recruitment into the ‘legacy’ fleets.

[canucklad]

As always rferguson`s comments are balanced,yet insightful …… personally the MF crew on my YVR flight were very engaging and friendly.
But then my natural instinct is to openly engage people who serve me.

But , it’s worth pointing out again a very simple fact when dealing with pesky,possibly uppity members of the general public. Managing CRM strategies using hygiene factors is very short sighted way of impressing us fare paying passengers. A far more effective strategy is to apply the Herb Kelleher principle …….simply put…..”the most important people in my business is not the customer but my people”

No apologies for boring you again with a CP antidote, because it’s relevant. People who worked for that airline loved the company and everyone who worked for CP ,worked for each other . When they transferred to AC they struggled as did the AC staff because of the deeply rooted variance in cultural attitude. The ex BMI staff I have spoken to also faced the same challenges.

As a manager of people I’m not sure whether to shake my head in disbelief or raise a glass to celebrate the top dogs at BA’s bravery at effectively introducing an apartheid regime with ,whether they accept it or not,the most important people in their business.

[Man_in_2K]

I was motivated to register here to reply to this post, by the service I received flying in F from LAS recently (a mixed fleet route). I’ve flown in F four times now – none of the service has been bad, but this was by far the best experience (the other 3 were on WW routes).

My only previous experience of MF was flying CW on the same route a few years ago – I was struck by how young, friendly and enthusiastic the crew were if somewhat unsure of the service – something which others were saying at the time, too. Of course, my experience is narrow, but if the guy serving me was reflective of MF, then it’s a big thumbs up from me.

He also said that he reads here occasionally (thought that you get some rubbish on Flyertalk – a more regular haunt for me!). I didn’t get a chance to thank him on exit, as his two colleagues seemed to be on door duty – so thanks from the man in 2K you thought had just turned gold!

[Author]

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