[VintageKrug]

Not ludicrous at all. A good way of maximising available space on board.

Qantas has its economy cabin directly behind F.

[rickasia]

Dear VintageKrug

is not ludicrous it absolutely silly, is a metter of fact Quantas is not in the top world wide 5 carriers, and thanks to you now I understand much better.
If you really like to pay something like 4 or 5.000 Euro for a first class and enjoy the noise kids and fellow F passenger snoop around you….well what to say, you are free to fly Quantas and enjoy the “mix”

[LindsayW]

rickasia, it’s spelt QANTAS !

[rickasia]

🙂 sorry as you know I’m not mother language, but I hope my meanings are clears….

[NTarrant]

The reasons it is done make sense in a capacity point of view. However from a practicality and operational point of view it is not a better idea.

[Tim2soza]

Part of the premium price of J or F is speed through the airport, and the chance, but not the guarantee, of minimizing time spent in queues.

I personally cannot stand being bussed to a plane, simply because it is a squash. I recently flew F from LHR T5 and was bussed. I skipped the queue at the gate, suffered with everyone else for 5 mins on the bus, was quickly escorted to 1K, and enjoyed 11 hours in comfort.

Getting off, two rows of J (BA744 Hi-J) and F got off first, and we all know that it is really about getting to the immigration queue first if landing abroad. (It doesn’t matter in the UK as the queue is always 30-60 mins even for a Brit.)

My views on who pays for the ticket – I have to say it does, on occasion, make a difference who pays. I have seen business people behave awfully, like precocious royalty, “Don’t you know who I am” etc. The ticket they are on is probably getting on for a months take home pay, and their employer would not want such a public display of bad manners. We all get broken IFE or poor meal once in a while. Cabin crew can make the difference in these situations, and more often than not they do so. Those who don’t; please take their names and complain. Write. It costs the airline to reply, even if it is a standard letter.

[rickasia]

Does any one know how long it takes to get a reply from BA.
I wrote on last February and I nevar had back a feed back, last week I wrote again and I received an email with a ref nu.
I wa travelling J from BLQ to Gatwich with my companion and we got dirty, bad smell with hair balnket (to go and come back !!!).
We was seated in second raw and the cabin crew when she was giving the lunch from Gatwich to BLQ she simply jumped us and she came to us in last and she apologized because many food was terminate….I’m not someone full of my self or traveling with tie, suit, etc, we are a normal happy couple was spending 4 days in London after new year so I mean I believe we didn’t do nothing to disappoint the lady or to look like “snobby” but that was what we got.

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

“A good way of maximising available space on board.”

That is nonsense.

We are talking about paying for premium travel here and premium travel means sitting as far forward as possible, away from the noise of the engines.

What we see here is pure greed by the airline.

[MartynSinclair]

I am sure airlines use computer modelling to cram as many seats into the available space and in practical terms that makes sense – its all about revenue.

However, practical vrs workable is the issue. It is unworkable to put economy in between F and J. Two reasons immediately spring to mind:

1. As has been mentioned, speed off the aircraft and through immigration.

2. It amazes me how cabin crew not only have to explain, but need to explain that the club kitchen, directly behind the economy or economy+ section, can not be used by economy passengers.

If someone pays for F, I fail to see why they are standing behind economy passengers to get off the aircraft. This is not about snobbery or one upmanship, its about, he who pays the most is entitled (under normal operating procedures) to de plane first.

[VintageKrug]

Oh dear I think he’s lost it.

So you’re actually saying that an ailine which shuffles around its cabins is purely motivated by greed, and not maximising available space onboard…?

Engine noise is less and less an issue on board a plane, and certainly with the advent of super-quiet jets like the A380 it doesn’t really matter where you are seated.

I seem to recall that Business Class used to be at the back of the aircraft on some BEA aircraft (Tridents?) so this “greed” has been going on for some time…!

[MartynSinclair]

I have to agree with Disgusted on this one:

Premium = forward of the aircraft

Economy = towards the rear end.

Business class at the rear of Tridents – cell phones used to look like bricks and weighed in a simillar amount – times change VK!

I can just imagine the scene

“Welcome aboard Mr Krug, please turn right, your First class seat is row 62 at the back of the aircraft. We would walk you down but need to get back before we need to close the doors, to show the economy class passengers to their seats at the front of the aircraft”!!!

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

“I seem to recall that Business Class used to be at the back of the aircraft on some BEA aircraft (Tridents?) so this “greed” has been going on for some time…!”

That’s a smart idea, put your premium customers next to three RR Spey engines 😉

I am not even sure if business class properly made it to the Trident fleet, before they were withdrawn in 1985, the configuration I remember was F/Y.

What you are thinking of was the BEA Vanguard, where first class sat at the rear, because propliners are quietest there.

As to it not mattering where you sit on a modern jet, that is complete rubbish, as others have said.

Let’s just face it, you view BA through rose tinted spectacles.

Putting W class in front of J is simply unacceptable practice, just like having several types of seats in CE, luck of the draw as to what you get.

This airline needs to buck up it’s ideas, hopefully the new head of customer experience will be able to deal with some of the customer unfriendly decisions from the Walsh era.

[Binman62]

tim2sms…I agree with you about being bussed. At T5 the practice of combining FJWY paxs is absurd and demonstrates BA lack of service for premuim customers. The bigger porblem is that few if any complin leading the responses such as we have asked our customers and they have said its fine!!!

There is simply no reason why there could not be a dedicated operation for premium passengers. It simply takes a will and given the fares it is something that is long overdue.

Must disagree with you about IFE ….if only it were once in a while last year it was 5 sectors out 6 with a problem. The IFE is shambles in First.

Having WT+ in front of J and behind F is also a farce. Of course it was done to increase capacity and I have no real issue with that.

The layout fails because the crew refuse to manage the disembarkation process. Where there are two jettys the crew could simply prevent WT+ from getting off by closing the curtain and standing firmly in the aisle. this is done by most Asian carriers in my experience and works well.

The issue is arriving at airports where there is just 1 jetty means someone is going to be dissapointed but even then it could be handled so much better.

[JohnPhelanAustralia]

I need to clarify VK’s remark about configuration on Qantas.

He is right that QF do put Y immediately behind F on the lower deck – but this applies to the A380 only. However, this is because J and Y+ are located on the upper deck. At ports used by the A380, there are separate airbridges for the upper and lower decks. So F pax are let off the lower deck first, at the same time as J pax are being let off from the upper deck.

I always smile when I see the signs at departure gates – F and Y using the same gate, while J and Y+ get to use the more exclusive one! (Of course, there is a separate line for F pax at the lower gate).

On B747, A330 and B767 aircraft, QF uses the ‘normal’ configuration of F-J-Y+-Y.

I agree that the BA config in which Y+ is ahead of J downstairs is stupid. It seems to have been done because of the thinking that, if you put J forward on the lower deck, then the stairs to J on the upper deck would be in the middle of Y+. But why on earth does that matter?

BA has decided to keep J “vertically aligned” over the two decks on the ‘low J’ 747 config. But it really serves no practical purpose. As someone who often travels on the upper deck, I would have no problem at all with the stairs being in the middle of the Y+ cabin downstairs.

[robsmith100]

On this note it is worth considering that BA have two different seat configurations on the 747. Mid J (where Y+ is in front of J) and High J (where Y+ is behind J). So it’s not a complete loss.

http://seatplans.businesstraveller.com/airlines/british-airways/seatplans/B747-400-High-J

http://seatplans.businesstraveller.com/airlines/british-airways/seatplans/B747-400-Mid-J

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