[canucklad]

In true Canadian diplomatic style, I’m going to agree with everybody!! ……Except the airlines!!!
Bleeding blood from a stone is pretty much what the airlines call customer service now a days and consequently as that stone runs dry, as Edski intimates a growing storm of passenger irritation is brewing in the skies above us.

Firstly….. Agamemnon’s point about short haul (2-3 hours) is valid. Ryanair and EasyJet seats don’t recline and its perfectly acceptable……Except, airlines operate and encourage us to HUB our way around the globe, not for our benefit but for theirs. So Ian has every right to catch a bit of shut eye on what in reality is the last 3 hours of his long haul flight!

Secondly ….. Laptops….. Passengers who want to use those cumbersome devices should choose window seats, or even better middle seats in the centre row. Regardless of recline, in my experience laptops become a wall to the aisle, and I’m not suggesting that all laptop users are “Tut Tut Tut “ irked people, but in my experience as simple request to go to the loo, is akin to asking them to move home to Baghdad. . .However , if the airlines invested in decent IFE systems, BA I’m talking about you, with your dusky screens, passengers wouldn’t feel obliged to bring their own entertainment.

Thirdly…. People who still insist on reclining during meal service should have jam inserted in their orifices and then stuck down an anthill upon their arrival….Just selfish bad manners.

Lastly…. Edski your point about the direct correlation between cost and comfort would be true if the airlines dropped their price , Steerage Class Airlines, ehmmm sorry Canada’s finest are still charging the most expensive fare to YVR , even though Leonardo Di Caprio could make Titanic 2 in their “ Y “ cabin…Totally scandalous behaviour.
Recline in 10 across isn’t necessarily the issue, the reduction in aisle space IS, toilet to pax ratio IS, and reduced attentiveness from CC IS, Cramped seats ,especially sitting next to people on a SEE food diet IS…….and I’ve not mentioned safety in case of an evacuation ??

Ohhhh……Almost forgot the point about the resurrected post from David. I’d like to think that United would ban this selfish individual who deliberately interfered with their property. Using a banned device, Further I’d like to see United attempt to recover the costs of the divert from the manufacturer.

[IanFromHKG]

Well said, canucklad. Although I don’t think United could claim from the manufacturer (as not every airline bans them) I certainly think they could seek the cost from the pax involved (both of them, frankly).

And I entirely agree conceptually about the meal service – although not necessarily the specific “solution” you suggest! I would add that I have seen crew on CX and BA asking pax to put their seats upright during meal service. If only there were sufficient space that it weren’t necessary!!

[dutchyankee]

Personally, I think the guy who used the device, if he refused to stop using it, should bare the cost of the diversion. He should be identified so other carriers will be aware of this moron.

While I dont like people reclining into `my space,` I recognise they have a right to do so just as I do, except I rarely do, and when I want to, I tend to always ask the person behind. They are usually so shocked by the polite question, they never say no.

[rferguson]

My last flight I worked back to the UK (a longhaul night sector). The trays had been cleared in from dinner and the lights were to be soon dimmed. Most passengers had nodded off (or were attempting to). I’m stopped in the aisle by a passenger (seated bolt upright) with the person in front of her reclined and asleep with eye shades on. The conversation went along the lines of:
‘Can you ask the passenger in front of me to put his seat upright’?
Me: ‘Madam he is asleep. It is a night sector and the service is finished.
‘Well look he’s right in my space. This is ridiculous’
Me: ‘Madam, why don’t you recline your seat and give yourself some more space’.
‘Because I don’t want to’.
Me: ‘Well if it was during the meal service and the gentleman was reclined I would ask him to put his seat upright. But the reason that the seats have the mechanism to recline is to allow passengers to get some rest on flights. I’m not going to ask him to put his seat forward. All I can suggest is you recline yours’.
‘Well that’s absurd’.

Seat-in-front-of-me-reclined is definitely THE number one complaint/issue in Y. There is no ‘official’ protocol on reclining. Most crew I work with at BA will absolutely ask a passenger to incline his seat during the meal service.

But I guess shorthaul flights are different. There is less uptake on food and is it really necessary to recline your seat at all on a one hour flight? The answer I guess could be to just not allow seats to recline on short haul flights. The problem though is that the same aircraft on a 40minute LHR-MAN hop could also operate a 4.5hr LHR-LCA flight where I think most would agree they would want the opportunity to recline their seat at some point.

I’m surprised with all of the technological advancements with aircraft and cabin/seating design no-one has come up with a system where the seats can be electronically ‘locked’ upright at certain points during the flight.

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

Have to agree with Canucklad (funny post – like it) / IFH – though lots of valid points from everyone.

If I travel and the seat allows recline then I will use this facility when applicable – i.e. to sleep. At mealtime obviously you keep it up. I have had people recline seats (ones that are broken and went to far back) straight after take off and through meal service which is a pain – but essentially their right – even if a little inconsiderate.

People with laptops don’t have the right to expect someone to keep seats upright as the plane is not an office and those who are travelling to work don’t have any more rights than those travelling for leisure. It is public transport. Maybe they could introduce an “office” class, where a few rows of economy can’t recline for those in economy, or those can’t afford business or travel policy does not permit this????! Sure there could be cash opportunities for people like BA anyway – charge for recline seats – or none recline seats – or both!

I believe some carriers like Cathay on longhaul now have economy seats in a “shell” so that recline doesn’t affect the person behind. Having not experienced this I don’t know if this is very effective or not.

[rferguson]

Tim the Y class ‘shell seats’ got so much negative feedback on their (lack of) comfort that they are now the ‘old’ Y product on Cathay and the ‘new’ Y product is back to the traditional reclining seat. I think the biggest problem with the Y class shell seats is that there is zero actual recline of the seat back. The ‘recline’ instead is created by the seat base moving slightly forward. I never sat in the shell seats but I believe they were extremely uncomfortable and unpopular.

[canucklad]

Would agree with the CX seat, it took a bit of getting used to but did stop the invasion of your front space. Its main drawback was the inconvenience it caused by the aisle seat.

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

rferguson

Thank you for updating me – good to know. I thought they were not popular – wasn’t aware that is now the old seat and that they had changed back.

[Charles-P]

As an aside to this I spoke some months ago to an ergonomic consultancy when we were planning our new office and this subject came up, his advice was absolute, never recline the seat, the effect on the spine is awful. He recommended never sleeping in a seating position if possible.

[IanFromHKG]

I had those very shell seats on my Bali flights last week, and they’re awful. The back does recline, sort of – the seat base slides forward, and the bottom of the seat back is attached to the rear of the seat cushion so it does recline, although the shell behind it doesn’t move. What this means is you don’t intrude on the person behind, but as you recline you reduce your own legroom. That wasn’t the real problem, though – the problem was the tilting part of the backrest was highly shaped (think Recaro sports seat), very hard, and poorly cushioned. If you were the right size and shape to fit the seat back you were fine. If you are too tall, or too short, or too wide, or whatever, it would dig in. I also understand from a friend of mine who used to work for Swire that the shell structure made them very heavy.

[SimonS1]

Here’s the BBC guide on how to manage the delicate art of reclining.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-28943131

[RHMAngel]

I feel compelled to answer this thread, as the unfortunate passenger (PAX) of the said “plastic bucket” non-reclining seats in Cathays.

Unfortunate because it was 20 hours in one (well two with connections) as unfortunately my organisation booked too late to get me the usual business class & had to get me out.

In a few words I’d like to echo some sentiments: THOSE SEATS SUCK.

But I listened intently to a stewardest explain to another PAX complain about the discomfort, and it was it seems about moving about (reclining) into your personal space the ‘ticket bought’ – odd explanation. And NOT reclining into the space BEHIND YOU which you technically don’t own, as pointed out by a number of posts here.

So its interesting to see a couple of posts saying they buy a seat to recline into the PAX space behind them. Rather than just their own space they sit in. I am not going to argue either way….

Like many forum threads it boils down to ‘consideration’ and manners, regardless of your culture or ethnicity. Some PAX will never give a damn, others will be considerate (beyond meal times). This applies beyond this forum’s gripes about seats…not knowing if your fellow passenger speaks your language or has the same notions of consideration is going to be another hurdle (if witnessing arguments is anything to go by)

Who’s to blame, airlines say PAX for wanting lower fares. PAX blame airline greed for cramming seats like sardines. I think its profit and greed… theatre seats, movie seats – its all about cramming us in, and or asking for a premium to ‘buy’ more space for our legs/bodies.

While I fly business most times (budget pending), and upgrade when I can (miles) on personal leisure trips, we can’t always be flying in a class that gets us lots of leg room. Sadly.

I mostly get angry that people with big bodies and legs seem to comment my smaller stature and legs makes me less inclined to feel as bad as they do.

We didn’t all pay the same fare for the same seat, but generally I believe we are all equal in a particular class of seat.

[jsn55]

I agree, Martyn, laptops don’t belong open in economy. Simple to understand. No seats should recline, or all to the same degree, on flights shorter than 3 hours. Passengers will never come to agreement about the subject, so just solve the problem before someone gets injured by the guy behind him. Every time I hear a pilot conclude his greeting with “sit back, relax …” I think, “where has this guy been for the last 10 years? Surely not flying around in coach.”

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