[KarlMarx]

That’s a witless half-thought 😉

[DavidGordon10]

As the person who introduced the “thoughtless half wit” concept into this thread, I should come back.

First some disagreement. I rarely disagree with Martyn, but I cannot accept the view “… can’t see it being necessary to use a lap top on a short flight”. I don’t ever have confidential information on the screen, and the sound is always off, but it can be an essential tool. Often I am working on a presentation, often I am readng the papers for the meeting at my destination.

Also I have to disagree with our Canadian colleague, my gadget is emphatically not a “fancy dancy la dee lah lap top … cumbersome device that needs space”. At 30 x 20 cm, and about 2kg, it is a portable tool for work.

The problem of the reclining seat is not so much what is knocked off the table, but it is the invasion of personal space without so much as a “please” or a “do you mind”? I have just looked at the Wikipedia article on “personal space”, which I commend.

Please do not recline your seat in my face without asking my agreement.

[lloydah]

Which brings me back to my point – Exactly WHOSE personal space is it? If the seat reclines into a space intended for it doesn’t that make it the preserve of that seat? And by the same argument David, your seat “owns” or at least inhabits the space behind you.
Of course we would all like to be concerned for our fellow travelers and be politeness itself when engaging with them but when push comes to shove (as it does in these circumstances) there seems to be no hard and fast rule as to which and where is “your personal space.”

[SimonS1]

At the end of the day it’s all a matter of opinions.

Some think it’s their right to be able to work on laptop on a short trip, others think it’s their right to recline the seat and sleep/watch TV on the same journey.

Let’s hope that David and I do not end up on the same flight, as I certainly wouldn’t be asking anyone for permission to recline my seat outside of mealtimes.

If it’s such a big “rage” issue the best solution would be for others to copy the Monarch, Ryanair approach and have non reclining seats. The problem is then over.

The wiki article on personal space is indeed interesting, however most users of this forum would realise that in travelling economy on short haul there are inevitably compromises involved.

[KarlMarx]

I wonder if DavidGordon10 has ever considered hiring a private jet?

[NameRemoved-18/12/14]

In my experience, very few people recline their seats on short flights. Longhaul is different and during meals only I consider it an invasion of my privacy if the person in front forgets or can’t be bothered to put his/her seat in the upright position. If the crew hasn’t already done so, I will politely ask myself.

[DavidGordon10]

Thanks Karl, a nice idea, but I am trying to be realistic about what is needed to make short-haul economy tolerable for the greatest good of the greatest number. (Bentham, I know, not Marx.) Do reclining seats make it more or less tolerable?

To answer Alexpo, as stated earlier in this thread, long-haul is a different issue.

Iloydah – whose personal space is it? Good question. To me, I think it is self evident that the 60-odd cm between the front of my head and the seat back in front of me is a more important element of my personal space than the 20 or so cm behind my head occupied by the seat back and the space into which it might recline. If anyone thinks the reverse, then maybe they have eyes in the back of their head.

Some time ago, an old BBC hand who had flown many many long haul flights in economy recounted on this forum how, having been smacked in the face by inconsiderate seat-reclining people in front too many times, resolved he would never recline his own seat. I try and emulate his example – so, Simon, if you are sitting behind me, your personal space will not be invaded by me.

[SimonS1]

Very considerate of you David but I can’t say it troubles me and I have never bothered to have words with anyone doing it. I always take the view that if it wasn’t intended for the person in front to recline then the seats wouldn’t have had a reclining mechanism fitted.

[DavidGordon10]

Well, Simon, there you see the difference between us.

I think it is ill-mannered to do something that may inconvenience the person sat behind me.

You don’t.

Res ipsa loquitur.

[canucklad]

Well David I’m going to be an inconvenience to your argument about needing a lap top. After many pints of Best and after a great gala day weekend I’m now answering you from the comfort of my duvet with the knowledge that I’ve a meeting in less than a half a day away

My point is I’m using something called a tablet,which to me used to be an asprin or a delicious Scottish delicacy now it’s a piece of kit that allows me to respond to your riposte about lap tops.

How lucky are we that technology allows us to differ? . : )

[MartynSinclair]

As RF confirms “everyone has the right to recline their seat.”

In addition, RF confirms that its not standard procedure to wake a sleeping passenger during a meal service but would ask an awake passenger to put seat upright during meal service.

What has been the maximum seat pitch in economy on BA. Has it ever been such that a reclining seat didn’t impact a passenger in economy.

With regards to laptops. The table is NOT designed for lap tops. Its difficult to even fully open the lap top so the screen is in the correct position. With regards to tablets, you don’t even need the table so they are usable on your knee.

The airlines need to solve this problem if the passengers cant… The Monarch way seems to be the way…

[SimonS1]

Sadly David there are many inconveniences in life.

The daily crush on the tube with people in your face. The smokers who block the doorway to the office as it’s the only place that protects them from the elements. The chuggers who operate around St Paul’s wearing a different jacket each day.

However life is too short to bleat about it all.

But you’re right, whilst admiring your spirit of fair play, I personally don’t think it ill-mannered to use a seat for a purpose for which by design it is clearly intended.

[IanFromHKG]

My own view is that people booking seats on an airline that offers reclining seats (a) are entitled to recline them and (b) should expect others to recline. I don’t see why I should ask permission to recline a seat any more than I should ask permission to use the reading light. Having said that, whenever I recline my seat I do so slowly and gently so that the person behind me can see the movement and, if necessary, rearrange whatever they may need to rearrange.

As to the point that people don’t need to recline on a short-haul flight – well, I think you are forgetting that many of us use short-haul connecting flights. Pretty much every short-haul flight I have taken in Europe recently has connected to or from an overnight long-haul flight; and when I have taken a long-haul flight leaving after midnight which arrives at 5 or 6 in the morning and am connecting onto another flight, I may very well want to get a bit more sleep, thank you very much, and the fact that you haven’t finished your work before getting on the plane cuts no ice at all, I’m afraid.

[DavidGordon10]

I am resuscitating this thread because forum particiants may not have seen the news about diversion to Chicago of a United Airlines flight from Newark to Denver because of a seat-back-rage incident.

The weight of different views in the online comments is interesting, as is the way that the subject continues to generate more heat than light.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/aug/26/plane-diverted-as-passengers-fight-over-seat-reclining

[Bath_VIP]

Interesting that this fight occurred among passengers in the economy plus section where they had greater leg room in any case! It reminds me of my premium economy on BA to LAX on the A38o a couple of months ago. The guy in front of me reclined his seat and because of the greater recline in WT, it prevented me from being able to use my laptop for the flight which was most inconvenient. I am quite tall so am susceptible to this issue.

Frankly seat recline should be removed from short haul flights in my opinion. On long haul flights, the airlines have to wise up to the fact that these days, passengers do want to use their devices. Perhaps the economy section should be divided in reclining/non-reclining areas so that passengers can choose which kind of seat they want? For premium economy, shell seat configurations a la Virgin is the way to go.

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