[sparkyflier]

In the past couple of weeks I have heard rumours that Latam Airlines (Peru division) has managed to get slots to fly from Lima and LHR and back.

Not sure if this is common knowledge yet but it has not yet been officially announced.

Prior to Covid BA had 2-3 flights a week from LGW using their high density 772, which I always thought was
a) from the wrong airport – LHR would attract more business travellers
b) not as preferable or profitable as a flight into Bogota.

BA as discussed in another thread have had to suspend multiple routes – due to aircraft shortages and not because they did not make money.

But if this rumour is true an advantage is that Latam would codeshare with Virgin Atlantic and so VS and their holiday division will be able to market this route in the UK.

I guess aircraft would be a 787 unless they borrow one of the 77W which Latam Brasil operate. I would have thought that might be too large, but also excellent for cargo!

Have any posters heard such rumours and able to add any more specific details?

Another recent development which will help the route is that Peruvian nationals (as well as nationals of Ecuador and Colombia) no longer need a Visa to enter the UK.

If this goes ahead will be an exciting and interesting development!

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AndrewinHK

[AndrewinHK]

Hi Sparkyflier, I saw a Simple Flying report saying the slots had been reserved but not yet confirmed, and the intention is to use the 77W up to 5x weekly starting this winter. TAM did used to serve both GRU and GIG from LHR, I recall GRU was daily and GIG 3x a week, I wonder where the slots are coming from for this new route, if from Delta (which own 20% of LATAM) will this be a seasonal, winter only route? Or could the slots come from Qatar which also holds a stake in LATAM?

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sparkyflier

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

Massive demand for Peru flights from colleges / charities / luxury tour market from the UK and with LATAM then also able to offer connections to Cuzco could be very popular. They’ll do well on Groups Traffic. Then you have the BT market as well.

Hopefully it does happen.

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Bullfrog, sparkyflier

[sparkyflier]

AndrewinHK you remember well! Indeed – TAM before they merged with LAN had daily 77W into GRU from LHR, and 3 x weekly A330 into LHR, which as they were fellow Star Alliance members with BMI had a UK member to codeshare with, get support from and of course had many connecting flights.

When BMI folded into BA they no longer had that partner and so withdrew. I think this was also around the time of an oil price crash which impacted on Petrobras who have their HQ in Rio and so there was a loss of premium demand.

And thank you for sharing that info from Simple Flying. 777-300 is a lot of plane for a new route but as TimFitzgeraldTC there could be substantial demand at front and rear cabins.

I really hope this comes to fruition – UK is woefully under-connected to Latin America and Africa which impacts on “Global Britain” and UK businesses.

[STORMIN']

Slight thread drift but reference was made by the OP to Bogota. I have been travelling LON – BOG for 30+ years and I continue to do so both for Business and VFR (my wife is Colombian). In the “good ol’ days”, BA operated the flight via CCS with a variety of aircraft which, in my time, included the 741, 744, 772 and 763 before the route was then canned. AV operate a daily flight but under no circumstances will I use AV; their flights are, however, rammed. Otherwise, excluding a transit via the US, KL, AF, LH and IB all operate daily flights, IB x2. I use all of these for different reasons and all are generally full. Whilst acknowledging BA have a shortage of resources, why are they not prioritising what appears to be a little goldmine here?

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Bullfrog, sparkyflier

[sparkyflier]

STORMIN’ – I entirely agree with you. For years on route focused discussions I have said BA is missing a trick by not serving Bogota. I think demand now would be actually greater than when it was when BA served CCS and BOG with 747s.

I am not advocating they return to Caracas, but BOG would work. I know many who have come to dislike Avianca, especially recently, but the dislike for Iberia has been earned over many years!

Most prefer to fly AF/KL to get to and from UK, each flying daily to Bogota using 789 or 350, and notably neither of these countries have historic links to Colombia, like UK, yet as you say, manage to fill their planes up..

Panama City is IMO the other route that would prosper.

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Bullfrog, tomyam42

[AndrewinHK]

Bogotá seems to make sense from all the points made. BA has codeshares into Bogotá with IB x2 daily (clearly not all hate IB), and AA, so it must have the data, I wonder what doesn’t add up for the route planners? Lack of feed on the Bogotá side? Or just a risk reward that favours more US ports and its transatlantic joint venture? Sparkyflier with Panama City, do you think it’s more likely this could start maybe as a LGW route either direct or a tag from one of the Caribbean ports, or could Panama City via Bogotá work as a route from LHR? BA seems content with its GRU/GIG/EZE/SCL/MEX/SJO South/Central America network, the group as a whole has a lot of Latam exposure with Iberia and Air Europa and BA if you include the Caribbean route network it’s actually quite extensive in itself.

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sparkyflier

[cwoodward]

At the moment it adds up to lack of available aircraft with the airline needing to wet lease aircraft even to maintain (up to a point) its existing network. This with a feet if mostly very elderly aircraft that top airlines would have ditched long ago.

[AndrewinHK]

‘Top airlines’ is open to interpretation I suppose. Two of the biggest carriers in the world, Delta and United use long-haul aircraft that are 25+ years old with the 767/757’S they operate. CX has 773s with an average age of 21 years. I think it mostly comes down to maintenance and economics, BA doesn’t seem to have reliability issues with its 777 fleet. Overall BA’s average fleet age is 13.8 years, yes they have aging 777’s but they are hardly an outlier in this. I would also argue that if they were desperately short of jets, does operating to SCL and SYD make sense? Capacity at BA is back to 93% of pre-pandemic and is forecast to be back to 100%+ in 2024. As of March 2023, they have 18 777’9’s on order, 5 787-10’s, and 4 A35K’s and are the largest European operator of this type, so there might be hope of some competition for Latam should they launch Lima.

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sparkyflier

[AlanOrton1]

13.8 years doesn’t sound like an overly aging fleet to me.
While not in substantial numbers, BA have taken delivery of A350 & B787 variants post 2020. I’ve flown on these to routes such as IAD & SAN in the last 6 months or so.

From a BT post on Tuesday it now reads like BA are flying more services to the US than pre Covid. I suspect a very profitable part of their business and one where they don’t lose much business to the Gulfies.

It feels like IAG would rather push pax to Latin America via IB & MAD, than open up direct BA routes.

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Bullfrog, AndrewinHK

[sparkyflier]

AndrewinHK you make valid points re why other cities in other countries are not being served.

I think right now sheer EX USA and Canada for UK/EU is very substantial indeed and as a business they cannot ignore that. I suspect the traffic across the Atlantic is highly driven from the western side of the pond- with the weak GBP and Euro versus the ASD being a factor.

You are right about the BA network in the Caribbean and Latin America – it is pretty substantial really, but think Lima, Bogota and Panama City being the missing markets which would make a decent profit.

Re routing for Panama City – it is a little further away from the other LGW destinations, and given I think much demand would be ex Panama, a stopping service maybe not be so desirable. However how about a LGW-PTY-San Jose (Costa Rica) year round service, with crew resting in PTY? Or perhaps as a Tag from Bogota to help BA check out demand.

cwoodward – “top” airlines is always going to be subjective, but however good airline managers may be – aircraft from manufacturers can be very very late and they cannot control, that. Many examples of this – especially from Boeing with problems with their newer 777, 787 and of course 737Max.

Personally for me newer aircraft are not necessarily better. Would prefer a 777 or A330 over 787 with dimmable windows for example which you cannot control.

Agree with Andrew (and thank you for checking what BA has lined up in the coming years) and Alan about the fleet not necessarily being old but as long as they are well looked after that is the main thing! Years ago a friend flew an A300 on LH just before it was due to be retired and he thought it was a brand new plane!

To bring the thread back on track, re Latam, given there is also a Latam Colombia (not sure how big it is), if they had managed to get 7 extra slots rather than the 5, then I suggest they could have gone BOG 4 x weekly and Lima 3 x weekly.

But where they got the slots from is interesting..

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AndrewinHK

[cwoodward]

Looking back it is apparent the the major American airlines have tended to hang on to aircraft much longer than do Asian airlines and most in Europe. (visible exceptions being Swiss and Lufthansa’s aging 340s although re fitted and of course BA many A330-200 are 25 years and older).
To me this is not a plus for any airline but demand for new aircraft seems to have well outstripped supply and the 5 years delay of the new 777 is a significant the problem for several airlines.

[sparkyflier]

LATAM to launch Heathrow-Lima route

It has come to fruition! Nice schedules too – and using 787 rather than 77W from Latam Brasil. I suspect Virgin Atlantic will be codesharing on this. Maybe these are even their LHR slots…

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AndrewinHK, tomwjsimpson

[BackOfThePlane]

@cwoodward – “and of course BA many A330-200 are 25 years and older”.

Not sure which aircraft you are referring to here as BA don’t operate A330s?

[sparkyflier]

Well spotted BackOfThePlane – I saw this the other night and wondered where that idea came from. Indeed BA never have, to their detriment IMO as these aircraft would have been ideal for them.

[Author]

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