[TominScotland]

RFerguson2, the amazing Qantas fare you give reminds me exactly why domestic business class fares in Australia are such good value when you can snag them using Avios.

Worth adding that 5 out of QF’s flights from Sydney to Perth are on their 737s, with only two on the 330.

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Rferguson2

[AlanOrton1]

Looking at the US, the legacy carriers there offer a separate F class, offering seats physically v similar to premium economy.
While some US domestic pax buy paid for F and while some connect into it via long haul J & F, it is in many ways a sop to their top tier frequent flyers.

Stretching my memory, LH used to have proper F seats in short haul and axed them many moons ago. More than likely for the reasons other posters above mentioned.

I’ve seen Club Europe cabins on flights to VLC and ALC twice as large as when I flew to ARN.
Premium leisure travel a huge boom for many airlines both short and long haul.

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Rferguson2

[FaroFlyer]

Nick Pike,

We use FR frequently and always pay for MR EXTRA COMFORT SEAT. When you go through the gate also show the ECS seat boarding card and have it scanned. That way they know that, although Mr ECS is a no see, he is not a no show, so he will not be moved. FR cabin crew are good at supporting ECS. Our alternatives on our FAO > BHX route are Jet” and occasionally EZ. J2 are always more expensive that FR and although they offer a theoretical extra seat it is not guaranteed. If you have lounge access and pay for fast track the experience can be similar to BA CE, apart from food & drink. If we are travelling with a lot of baggage we use BA CE and the Gold card.

Let us know how you get on.

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Rferguson2

[Rferguson2]

Tominscotland – absolutely. The domestic business class fares in Australia on QF are absurd. But, because each aircraft has fixed resources (seats) of business class (12 on a 737) and the demand is there they can obviously charge through the roof for them. And to be honest, I do not find Qantas Domestic business class catering any better than the majority of the intra europe business class offerings on legacy airlines.

But this is why when people think of Qantas as an ‘international’ airline which it is, the powerhouse behind its profits are very much from its extensive domestic operation.

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cwoodward

[esselle]

Rferguson2

I agree that QF fares can be very high on domestic business class, but my way around that is to book through BA using Avios, where the step up from Y to C always seems quite modest. I don’t fully agree on the catering though. A couple of MEL-SYD-MEL returns earlier this year mid afternoon offered a soup, a hot sandwich, a cheese plate or a dessert, plus wines poured from full size bottles and cloth napkins.

The C hard product on the 737 is pretty good, but on some occasions you are lucky to find you’re on an A330 which feature full J class spec, particularly good if you’re going over to PER!

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Rferguson2, cwoodward, pdwtrip

[norbert2008]

Talking of Cairo I flew economy on a 747 and was kindly sat in the bubble Club seats but economy service on those two tiered trays. I was upgraded to club on my way back due to them loosing my bag on the outward journey. Flew on a 777 with first and visited the cockpit. Those were the days. I wonder why there is not the traffic on that route now for a long haul aircraft?

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Rferguson2

[AndrewinHK]

In the last few days, I flew BA 15 from Singapore to Sydney luckily just before the aircraft switched back to the 787-9 for the Northern Summer season. I flew in F, the lounge in Singapore is very nice, as is the exclusive First-class section in the lounge (not even OW Emerald is allowed to use it). While the food is probably better in the Qantas and Qatar lounges, the BA lounge is a good offering. The 77W has a high premium layout with ClubSuites and First a small PEY section and Economy, the flight was full in every class. The crew again made this flight for me, with light-hearted British humour and a non-stuffy way of interacting ‘Unless the ground crew wants to spend Easter down under, please hop off the aircraft now’. The seat is ‘the best business class’ I always enjoy the incremental benefits of first on BA, and whilst it is never going to be the wow you get on SQ/CX etc, for me it’s a very comfortable, classy seat, the food was well plated, the crew proactive, and I slept for 6 hours, and arrived very well rested.

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Rferguson2

[FDOS]

For the sake of balance, I took an AF flight to the middle east, over the weekend.

I have never witnessed before, such a spectacular cockup on boarding procedures, meaning that about 100+ passengers boarded before me, even though I had Sky Priority.

Once onboard, normal service resumed, with very pleasant/friendly and personal service, excellent food and a couple of nice vins to wash it down.

Aircraft was immaculately clean and the business suites in very good condition for an aircraft that was 3 years old.

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Rferguson2

[Rferguson2]

@Esselle regarding QF Domestic – in terms of the value of Avios redemptions, couldn’t agree more! In regards to the catering, to be honest I do not think it is great. I guess on a one hour hop from Sydney to Melbourne the choice of a hot sandwich, a soup or a cheese plate is reasonable but it is the longer sectors where I find the catering lacking.

For example, Sydney to Perth which is an almost five hour sector I dug out the menu I kept from a couple months ago. The choices were pepper stir fried beef with rice, creamy chicken thighs with mash or a ‘big bowl of soup’. There was no starter or side, no cheese. The only other items accompanying the meal was a slice of bread, a dessert in a box and a lindt chocolate. Considering that economy also receives a complimentary hot meal on this sector I was underwhelmed. If I was shelling out close to £3k I would be downright disappointed.

By comparison, I flew BA to Sofia a few weeks ago (TP run!). The very crowded tray contained a tasty hot meal (curry), a small appetizer, bread roll, a delicious Do&Co mousse for dessert as well as cheese and biscuits.

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esselle, AndrewinHK

[pdwtrip]

Have completed four BA F flights recently and would agree that BA F now back to where it used to be; maybe not the best but with a good team it has been a happy experience. Hot towels warm bowl of nuts (rather than the club packs) and food OK out of LHR; variable from outstations. Soups always good and a great Canadian desert wine recently.
The addition of Lobster starter welcome – but if you have a fully loaded cabin of 8 then only having 3 available is guaranteed to potentially upset 5 people. Be good to re introduce booking meal options online before travelling.
Have to say I find the Singapore BA F lounge a cupboard, food offering limited. The Qantas F lounge has a great menu but gets a bit crowded. Etihad lounge usually quieter, good food and service.
I find that the 787-9 my preferred plane as feel fresher than the 777 – could be difference in pressurisation although maybe that is the physiological effect of being told I will feel better – but it works!

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AndrewinHK

[FormerBA]

Not flown BA long haul since 2017 and have no plans to do so this year either.

I have to fly shortfall as I don’t really have much choice especially if I wish to take advantage of the the UKs only frequent flyer programme that provides access to long haul, shortfall and credit card options. ( yes VS does but it is a much more limited offer.

In any event I have yet to see any descernible improvement in short haul or the LHR lounges and until that happens I wouldn’t risk flying long haul. The changes to the BAEC are a huge negative and redemption are both rare and expensive. Boarding is a disaster on shortfall.

I am however a BA gold card holder obtained on the back of QF QR CX travel this last year with 3 Club Europe return sectors.

Delta was a surprise in December when I flew with the to SYD via LAX, wow!! Moreover every Long haul flight in the last 18 months I have been on has been on time to the minute. BA are just not in that league.

Recently my son was involuntarily offloaded from a BA flight following a technical problem limiting the number who could be carried. This can happen and he was rebooked on the next flight and will get UK 261 compensation. However there was no adherence to the regs, they never sought volunteers preferring to just offloaded the cheapest 9 passengers with no interest in the impact that would have on them. They did not advise him of his rights and provided nothing to confirm he could get a hotel on arrival. It is just not good enough and while he and I can deal with this sort of issue, many people would simply have felt abandoned and stressed. Is this sort of behaviour that just puts me right off them and until I see and consistent level of praise and my own experiences are more positive, I am staying well away

[Rferguson2]

FormerBA I agree with you regarding shorthaul Y. Without the seat selection/fast track/lounge perks of BA status there would be no compelling reason to choose them on a route in economy unless they had the cheapest fare. But again, I think that applies to the majority of the european legacy carriers on short haul which loops back to the discussion as to why the LOCO’s have made so much inroads in europe versus other geographical areas of the world.

I am still a Delta virgin but have had good things. I have to say I have really enjoyed my transatlantic flights with AA in biz recently although from previous flights I think they have an even greater consistency of service problem than BA.

[persiantraveller]

@Rferguson2 Hah – AZ is actually the best airline transatlantic right now but they’re smaller and don’t have a good footprint unfortunately, but next in line is fellow SkyTeam partner AF for sure. AZ for the comfortable lie flat seats, amazing authentic Italian food (although I do love traditional French food as well), great lounges in their FCO hub (no crowd, hustle and bustle of CDG or LHR but still close and very busy in Terminal 1), beautiful amenity kits, efficient priority check-in/boarding, good customer service, friendly and professional crew, on-time performance, generous pitch even in Y+ and Y, not to mention, stylish new designer interior and shiny modern aircraft (but even the A330-200s are not half bad, and I enjoyed the 777s in Alitalia too but they haven’t gone over to ITA). AZ has an airy and spacious A350 fleet and some beautiful cabins in the A330-900neos as well.

[persiantraveller]

@cybertravller AF is great, CDG is a hellhole. I suggest you try ITA.

[persiantraveller]

@norbert2008 Different, and even better times, the good old days. Unfortunately, people will fly low-cost airlines more nowadays and demand has decreased for that region, or maybe has increased but still shifted market type or category, as more and more people shift to LCCs, smaller aircraft and higher number if frequencies, and very sadly, premium demand reduces. People don’t have money to spend on travel anymore with recessions (only a select few, and most of us on this forum are very lucky) and companies don’t want to give J class tickets on medium haul flights anymore to their employees, only top-tier executives on ULR sectors. That’s why BA doesn’t fly premium-heavy 777s anymore to CAI, just A320s. You could argue the connecting traffic, but from the US I don’t think many people would choose BA. Different targets fly maybe AF or AZ, which is why AF flies A350s to Cairo, and they’re not even THAT premium heavy, lacking an F cabin as well. But, I agree, it would be nice for premium travel to rise once again, with the current world situation I don’t think it will happen anytime soon.

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