[openfly]

sorry…forgot to say…the last 8 747s will not be converted to new First.

[Potakas]

What to you mean by saying the 8 last? There are currently about 20+ B747s without the NF fitted.

[RichHI1]

IS that the remainign Hi J’s?

[Potakas]

Aaaah, I see..

Do you mean those?

14F/70J/30W/185Y (currently 10 out of 18 have NF)

Where that comes from?

[VintageKrug]

This is not news I have seen reported elsewhere, but it does seem to stack up, given that the G-BNL* series will in most cases be passing their 21st year next year and so will probably be retired in short order once the new A380s and 787 come online in late 2012/early 2013.

I can see 7 of these low J birds in the fleet plus one which is being returned from the desert (G-BNLG) this week.

These will be the “low J” configuration aircraft which have long been the lowest priority for new F, as they tend to be used on routes with lower premium demand.

It should be noted, however, that BA’s oldest 747, G-BNLE, built in 1989, *does* have new F fitted.

So there will be a very small risk on low J routes such as Miami, that “old F” might be the order of the day for some time to come. That is, of course, assuming these birds don’t get sent off to form a new longhaul subfleet at Gatwick, rather than being retired altogether.

[freediveuk]

Regarding the current rate of embodiment – am I right to say that BA have not upgraded any/many aircraft in the last few months? There still seem to be 25 aircraft to be upgraded at present – so has BA decided against any further upgrades? I am going to SFO in a month’s time and that route still only show c.40% new First and LA is not much better than that. Surely these can’t be “low premium class” routes?
Has BA lost the plot on this and lost its nerve on completing the full embodiment? Wonder how many passengers will be happy to fly in the old First for another 2+ years while BA waits on the newer aircraft – and even more how this looks in terms of PR..

[VintageKrug]

NO. The “plot” has most definitely not been lost.

With approximately 80 aircraft on which to install the new cabin, it will take time to complete.

Changing the cabin may seem simple, but involves some complex tasks in confined spaces, including safe disconnection of the old suites, deep cleaning/replacement of panels, re-wiring, testing etc. and such activity is often done alongside more fundamental engineering tasks.

So a 747 may be in Cardiff for a refit as long as three weeks, and during a busy summer flying schedule it may be difficult to de-roster aircraft from an almost fully deployed fleet (as you recall, BA has recently returned several aircraft from storage in the desert, which may also have occupied capacity at Cardiff).

BA started re-fitting new F in mid 2010. With a fleet as large as BA’s, it’s inevitable a cabin refit will take between two and three years. New First should be available in all but a handful of aircraft by Easter 2012.

That’s about two years to refit the fleet, which is in line with, and in some cases ahead of, other airlines which have installed new cabins recently.

[Potakas]

BA recently brought one or two 747s from the desert (USA), those aircraft need to have first a D-check which is the most extensive service check that an aircraft can go through.

Cardiff has enough space for two or three aircraft so the process is going slower.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_maintenance_checks#D_Check

[Potakas]

Yes, you are right.

Apologies for that and thank you.

[dutchyankee]

Hi Potakas, I see you have corrected it so I will delete my previous post. All the best.

[RichHI1]

Thanks Vintage Krug for the wake up call. Does not look like I can rely on LA getting NF from BA reliably by Christmas so I have moved back carriers. Good luck everyone.

[dutchyankee]

And there goes that BA PR machine known as VintageKrug. Is it any wonder so many of us are convinced he/she works for BA, despite his/her numerous protestations to the contrary.

[VintageKrug]

You can believe all you want; I don’t and never have worked for BA in any capacity, and nor does anyone connected to me.

There’s nothing wrong with trying other airlines; BA doesn’t guarantee new F on any of its routes, though there are certain routes which have a high probability of getting it, there is always the risk you won’t.

If it’s essential for this person to fly new http://www.ba.com/first , then it’s probably worth him chancing it with one of the other airlines which offer First direct to LA.

Which I think restricts Rich to United? And while I’m a fan of their new First suite, despite the profusion of grey plastic, their on board service can approach Soviet levels.

[StephenLondon]

And UA fly the 777 to LA, which means hit or miss on getting new First on UA since they only guarantee it on 767 and 747-400 aircraft.

[RichHI1]

For info it is AA137 so part of Joint Business so no revenue loss either way to BA. Without revisiting other forums Lounges and food would go to BA but larger more comfortable seat and more convenience pushes me back to AA. Used to be UA 100K for many years but left due to the way they treat customers. COmparing their service levels to the Soviets is I think unfair to the Kremlin.

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