[Papillion53]

Morning all – beautiful Sunday morning here in NE Scotland!

One of the funniest freebies – took one of my GF to London for the day to celebrate a BIG birthday – spot of retail therapy, lunch at The Berkeley, champagne at HA Rods, last flight home a wee bit tiddly 😉 🙂

CC asked what we’d been up to as he served our double measures GnTs probably cos he was amazed at two “hmmmmm something’s” giggling away, so I told him. Just before we landed back he pops with a sick bag full of miniatures – good selection as I remember! And this was after he’d been back to apologise he’d no champagne on board and topped us up with yet another handsome round of GnTs! So now she and I, if we need a drink, we just look at one another and go “sick bag”! I guess you had to be there! 😉 🙂

Needless to say the DHs took one look at us as we staggered off the plane and just stood there shaking their heads!

Happy memories.

VK – did you have to spoil my Sunday morning! 😉 I do hope you’re not a speedo man!!!! LOL!

[handbag]

VK -Such instant service recovery can result in serious issues not being reported through the normal channels, which means BA may never find out there was a problem and therefore is less able to understand the scale of the issue and take steps to address whatever it was

Sorry, but on this one you are incorrect. Crew want serious issues resolved as much as you do. I want to go to work and both the Passengers and the Crew to have a good experience. We spend our life reporting issues (serious and minor), to try and ensure the same thing does not happen again. My life would be so much more pleasant if everything went perfectly and there were not any issues. As Crew, we write reams in an attempt to reduce the problems.

If a bottle of anything is given out, then it is not so I don’t have to write a report, but because I think you have not had the experience that you should have had. I am trying in some small way to to make someones day a little better and show that I do care.

I am not going to get into a debate as to the financial right or wrongs of that, because as an employeed, I prefer only to make factual points when discussing BA. I do know that the majority of people appear to be pleased that we do show we care.

[r ryan]

it’s not the crew who cause upgrades, but they have to deal with it. I want crew to ‘bend’ the rules when there are problems. Asiania have lost my business because of their rigid handling of a situation, so for the small cost of something they might be able to do, they get no more business from me.

On two sequential Asiana flights was annoyed to see a gaggle of people in the galley behind Business clutching bags during boarding who were rushed into Business after the doors were shut. They completely filled the cabin – looking in economy later on both flights there was not an empty seat to be seen, so obviously an overbook. The upgraders had friends in economy who kept rushing in to talk to them; plus they were total locusts. Being in the last row, we full fare paying guests did without menu choices, no cheese board, a white wine shortage (all gone before they got to us) etc. mid flight from Syd to Seoul, I asked for a snack as we had a food shortage at lunch, and all gone, the upgraders had hoovered the lot. All the crew did was bow an apologise; and so for the pre-arrival snack I asked they might keep something for the last row – no chance – i got two plates of chopped pineapple( have the photo) The crew were rigid in their handling of the situation, and the airline didn’t uplift sufficient catering to deal with the full cabin. And no compensation, not even a bottle of wine (it had all gone I guess)

[VintageKrug]

I think you’ve misunderstood my point.

There are two issues at stake – one is the giving of a bottles of champers to honeymooners, which IMHO should not be permitted, but instead a glass of champers from an already opened bottle seems sensible, and that should be a formally sanctioned policy within the remit of all cabin crew.

The second is the giving of champagne for service recovery. I never said this was done so crew could avoid writing a report – I’d hope you’d write a report anyway.

My point is that there is often no need to dole out champagne. The passenger should be given the information to equip them to write – preferably using the online form – to support any report crew themselves have done, and the CSD (not general crew) should have more discretion to offer alternative service recovery there and then, avoiding the need to give champagne.

I’m sure there maybe times when the gift of a bottle may seem just the job, but such largesse should be the exception, rather than the norm, and should be at the sole discretion of the CSD not general cabin crew (if indeed it is legal to give away champagne from a bonded store, which I assume the bar is, in which case it’s a definite no-no and could cost BA millions if it was discovered to be a systemic and habitual practice). If a bottle is given in service recovery, this should be part of a formal process, and logged as such.

But it would be better to give something like an instant 5,000 Avios voucher/Shopping the World voucher for a whole host of reasons.

In a large organisation such as BA, and especially so because of its geographical diversity and difficulty of getting consistent approaches, what’s called “conformance” to policy is essential in keeping costs down and ensuring the business has the right information on which to make its decisions.

It’s not cabin crew’s job to consider the wider ramifications of such activity, but I’m sure you can see that the concervative £50,000 saving from stopping this (and dealing with passenger issues more formally) is money well saved.

I do appreciate your position “in the thick of it” but as a dispassionate observer I can also see the argument for enforcing less discretion – as my illustration in a post above sets out what you perceive to be a nice, harmless gesture can in fact:

– impact BA’s bottom line by tens of thousands of pounds when replicated across the fleet
– could lead to significant fines for violating the bonded bar store
– could result in poor management information (uploading too much champers on longhaul flights (no bad thing, IMHO..!)
– could mean the crew don’t bother to write a report on the matter, so patterns of issues cannot be identified
– could lead to passengers also failing to write in about issues
– the gift of champagne might possibly be culturally inappropriate (eg person doesn’t drink for religious reasons or is an alcoholic)
– get the cabin crew member in trouble if mentioned in a http://www.ba.com/welldone

You’ll probably disagree with all the above, and I can see that it might be perceived as simpler to just give out a bottle. It probably is easier. But it’s not always the best solution, when taken in the round, and it’s no bad thing for crew such as yourself to have an appreciation of the reasons why other people may think this way; it’s not just “management” trying to criminalise or reduce your discretion out of a wish to hobble cabin crew discretion.

Where BA management seems to often fail is by stopping one “informal” practice which seems to work well in the eyes of crew, without explaining the (often sensible) reasons behind it (though to be fair in my experience of brief galley chats I’m not sure all are equipped to understand such matters) and also by not putting in place a “formal” route whereby exceptions can be managed appropriately.

Personally I think the CSD should have more discretion to offer “on the spot” service recovery (eg avios/duty free vouchers or in serious cases like a seat failing to recline, a voucher for a space available upgrade next time). Perhaps the era of the iPad will help that, and ensure matters can be resolved face to face on the flight and avoid the need for a costly correspondence with the contact centre.

How good would it be to have avios in your account and case closed on landing if an issue had occurred during the journey – it could save BA a fortune in contact centre costs. empower the CSD to personally deal with the matter and increase the level of personalisation of service recovery.

[handbag]

VK : Such instant service recovery can result in serious issues not being reported through the normal channels, which means BA may never find out there was a problem and therefore is less able to understand the scale of the issue and take steps to address whatever it was.

VK:I think you’ve misunderstood my point.

Handbag: I did understand your point. What you said was “BA may not find out there was a problem”. I said this was incorrect.

VK : – could lead to passengers also failing to write in about issues
Handbag: Unfortunately you are missing the point. Crew actively encourage passengers to write in. I personally wish more would do it. 1 of your letters is worth 10 of mine. You seem to miss the point that we don’t want there to be problems. We really want things sorted.

VK: – the gift of champagne might possibly be culturally inappropriate (eg person doesn’t drink for religious reasons or is an alcoholic).

Handbag: We use out commen sense and experience. If you have been enjoying a glass of wine or a G & T, the above is not likely.

VK: – impact BA’s bottom line by tens of thousands of pounds when replicated across the fleet

Handbag : Or perhaps I have turned the situation around and it will encourage them to travel with us even more.

VK: – get the cabin crew member in trouble if mentioned in a http://www.ba.com/welldone

As a senior Crew member, if I have acted in the best interest of the passenger , I would not be in trouble.

VK: it’s not just “management” trying to criminalise or reduce your discretion out of a wish to hobble cabin crew discretion.

Handbag: I don’t really understand why you would think like this. If effective options are in place , then I don’t need to use my discretion and everyone is treated fairly. I would actively encourage the Company to empower us to give Avios etc. I have never felt crimanalised or hobbled.

I feel quite sad, when I read a lot of your posts. They make me feel, that you don’t actually like Crew very much. This is such a shame, because so many of are in the job because we really do want to do a great job. We like passengers and actively get involved with the Company trying to make things better for everyone.

CSD’s are gradually being given more discretion to offer service recovery. The IPAD is helping this and I agree that this is a step forward.

I am currently off with a work related injury, so I am not up to speed on all the details, but it is happening (as I am sure you already know) .

[VintageKrug]

Thanks for your considered response.

1. I still think you misunderstood my point. BA may not find out the passenger had a problem, because *the passengers* themselves will not bring it to the attention of BA through the usual channels, as the matter was “recovered” on board, but no record of it being a *passenger complaint* would ever be made. “Malfunctioning seats an issue? No, because although crew are writing in about it, passengers aren’t complaining so that issue didn’t make the top ten actionable items this month”.

2. Crew may encourage passengers to write in, and that’s to be encouraged, though of course preferable for crew to point pax in the direction of the online forms which are less expensive for BA to administer, and have faster response times.

3. I entirely understand crew would prefer no issues on board; that’s not the reality, though, and crew must appreciate that when running a business with margins as wafer thin as an airline, some prioritisation must occur and not everything will be 100% perfect all the time.

4. I set out how the actual cost of the bottles of ‘poo cost tens of thousands, but the bonded bar issue could cost millions if found to be a systemic breach. There are better ways to recover a situation on the spot, it’s unfortunate that they aren’t available to crew just now; I hope that will be looked at.

5. I really don’t see how “feeling sad” comes into it. You are entirely incorrect in your assessment that I don’t like crew very much. I fly BA over other airlines precisely because of the crew, both legacy and mixed fleet; they are (mostly) highly professional, but at the same time personable and have the right balance between courtesy and cheekiness which isn’t found on any other airline. And I’d include members of a certain employee organisation in that assessment.

It would be nice to be all touchy-feely about it, but running any business – and particularly an airline – in the current climate isn’t like that. I don’t like this Liverpudlian-esque victim culture which certain quarters of BA’s crew are propagating. It’s tough out there. For everyone. And BA is not immune to that.

BA has certain structural weaknesses which need to be addressed, but some of the vitriol stirred up against BA Management – often directly to passengers, but also when apparently out of earshot – is positively toxic and simply must stop. BA isn’t perfect but, *newsflash*, the only people who will steer a course towards future success (and supporting future pensions and product investment) are BA’s management working with crew to achieve those goals. The assumption that there’s a never-ending pot of money out there which can be liberally spread around at the whim of cabin crew is extraordinary.

6. The empowerment of CSDs is encouraging, and though I’d heard whispers about using the iPads in a more proactive way, I haven’t heard anything specific about their use to offer service recovery on board. It’s encouraging if that’s closer to be rolled out.

[handbag]

VK : 1 Will will have to agree to disagree
VK 2: We Agree
VK3: Crew do understand this. It is basic logic and common sense.
VK 4: Have no idea as to the Bond Store aspect, but agreee there are better ways. It is in hand.
VK: 5. I am so pleased that I am incorrect. How nice it is for you to say something positive about Crew – of both Fleets.

“there’s a never-ending pot of money out there which can be liberally spread around at the whim of cabin crew is extraordinary.” It is comments like this that led me to my wrong assumption above.
VK 6. Agree

Unfortunately I am away for a bit now, so will not be able to continue this discussion. Think that we have both made out point felt anyway.

[MartynSinclair]

“Service Recovery” – thats a new term, but I can understand senior cabin crew member having the responsibility and authority to “restore faith”, but I can not see any need for general cabin crew to offer anything other than facilitate a letter in to Customer Services, perhaps on board, via an ipad.

Giving anything away, be it an upgrade, bottle of wine/champagne is the same as giving stock away – cabin crew should not be put in the position of being able to give stock away……………..even for service recovery.

I am of the opinion that there should be no upgrades. I liked having 60K empty.

[VintageKrug]

I should add that far from my comments about crew from both fleets being the exception, those are exactly the sentiments you’ll find in many of my other posts.

That doesn’t mean that there isn’t benefit in calling out very clearly, and for their own benefit, when a group of the most easily lead and financially naive people have simply got their facts wrong. It’s not an attack on crew themselves, more of a wake up call.

[BigDog.]

One may therefore reasonably assume that if “a group of the most easily lead” people, were lead by even a mediocre CEO, that CEO would have no problem in winning them over, unifying and inspiring all the company’s employees, quickly building everyone’s morale.

Bring on the CEO that has the ability to deliver that, coupled with successful restructuring. A basic but real world understanding of economics and economies would be a bonus.

[767prisoner]

Sorry all for inadvertently provoking quite a debate! Looks as if we will have to tough it out in coach for our trip as most of the forward cabins are full anyway. Only LHR to the US had availability and that was in WT+. BA wanted £3,000 for two of us to upgrade from coach for that one leg. we’re going to spend it on a holiday instead. Qantas were singularly unhelpful when I called them. Apparently being top tier in one world doesn’t let me choose my seats in advance from SIN-LON as it does on other one world airlines…not to worry, it’s a red eye and I have some remarkably potent sleeping pills at my disposal…

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