[HonestCrew]

Don’t bother asking your crew for an upgrade. As much as we would love to make your trip special, the management culture at BA has changed over the last few years and now sits at a really impersonal and uncaring level across many areas. Instructions from the top have declared that unauthorised upgrades amount to THEFT from the company!! Another recent instruction, to try to scare crew into complying with this order, is by upgrading people on board after the aircraft doors have closed, we are also cheating the British government of tax revenue (due to premium cabins attracting a higher rate of tax) and we can face being reported for that too!

Seriously, this is what is happening internally at BA these days.

Of course, whether you agree with it or not, we will still plonk our dear old mum in a nicer seat if travelling with us and reseat someone in a better seat if their IFE is not working (should their cabin be full) even though it is ‘against the rules’. But even then, it all has to be done in a hush-hush way.

Where is the love, man?

[VintageKrug]

It’s good to see that crew are no longer permitted to upgrade “their old mum”.

It’s quite right that this sort of theft is being stamped out.

It is for BA’s management/systems to decide who is upgraded – operationally or otherwise – and systems are in place to manage this, by permitting paid for upgrades at check in or via MMB to keep forward cabins as full as possible, and by operationally upgrading people at the gate if necessary.

BA is not a charity, indeed it is foregoing profits by continuing to employ legacy cabin crew on rates which are far in advance of the market and at the same time continuing to fund the pensions of those very same people.

Management taking charge an ensuring conformance in regards to protecting premium cabins is essential for the continued success of the airline.

It is unacceptable that this practice persists “once doors are closed” and another example of the ways in which legacy crew have become laws unto themselves.

[MartynSinclair]

Ita always easy to give away something that belongs to your employer, when it belongs to you and affects your own businesses bottom line its another story.

Quick side line, I am curious Honest Crew (or anyone else) whats the story behind the commission / bonus / profit split for sales from the onboard duty free (not worth starting a new thread, but just curious).

[HonestCrew]

The point I was trying to make, albeit maybe I wasn’t so clear, was the attempt to end the ability of crew to make someone’s trip that little bit special. Not just upgrades but maybe a bottle of wine or something that could mean a future booking for the airline.

I do agree to a point with the principle of giving away things that ‘belong’ to the company is wrong.
Personally I side with customers who have paid a price to sit in a premium cabin and quite rightly do not like it if someone is upgraded for free.
I was advising 767prisoner that the days of upgrading honeymooners has passed. As much as we would like to do something special for them, a glass or two of bubbly is as far as we can go.

VK – you must drop your obsessive legacy crew/BASSA bashing. You had a dig at another poster recently who disagrees with you over the management style of Willie Walsh, accusing them of being obsessives So what is good for the goose…..

FYI, the vast majority of upgrades are performed by the FLIGHT CREW. The Captain telling us to upgrade such & such. Friend of a friend , relative of another pilot, etc.
Do I ever hear you mention the holy drivers? No.

These days very rarely do cabin crew move anyone unless for service recovery.

Bust this myth that all non- Mixed Fleet crew are earning excessive salaries.
The generous salaries ended for new-starters in the late 90’s. Since then pay has been at a level that pays lower than the UK average salary. I am one of them. I earn more than crew at Virgin for example, but I joined BA with years of experience, not straight from Sixth Form. BA wanted to recruit experienced people to keep up their reputation of having competent, knowledgeable crew from a variety of backgrounds.

They have changed their recruitment policy now as we all know, but that’s not the discussion.

Martyn – onboard duty free commission. 10% of the total duty free sales revenue taken on that flight is split amongst the crew.
I suppose on average I earn say £10-£12 a month commission. Nothing to shout about but it is not something we are really bothered about either.
The good commission is earned on the Nigerian routes.

[Binman62]

Upgrades of clingons still going on. 2 on my flight to HKG recently.

They were seated after doors closed and cabin crew made rather a fuss of them. It was very obvious and not at all subtle.

Frankly I don’t care much so long as it does not impact on me, I can only use 1 seat at a time, but let’s not pretend it is not happening.

[VintageKrug]

The crew never had “the ability” to upgrade customers. As I understand it, it used to be at the sole discretion of the CSD and/or Captain. Not crew.

And I entirely support the fact that flight crew should be held to the same standard as cabin crew on this matter. I have no bias towards “holy drivers” though by that comment you betray your perspectives on the matter.

non-Mixed Fleet crew are earning at a rate which the market would not pay now. Many legacy fleets at other airlines have taken salary cuts and/or been made redundant.

BA has, and I think that’s the right decision, chosen to honour its contract with cabin crew for now; but when you hear of pre-200oish CSDs earning a total package (including bonuses, downroute payments and pension) in the £45,000-£60,000++ range, and in some rare exceptions even more than that, and understanding that you may not fall into this category, one does have to question whether some legacy fleet salaries are excessive, however experienced, given the pay cuts elsewhere.

Experience and level of remuneration have very little bearing on the service delivered. Training does, and while BA may be in catch up mode training Mixed Fleet they are in my personal experience exceeding service levels on shorthaul, and for the most part matching service levels on long haul, all for a considerable amount less.

It’s good to hear that service recovery is now the primary driver for onboard upgrades by the crew, and that the premium cabins are protected as they should be.

[MartynSinclair]

@ HonestCrew – “As much as we would like to do something special for them, a glass or two of bubbly is as far as we can go.”

Out of interest, from a crew point of view, exactly what would you like to do to honeymooners, or those celebrating special anniversaries??

@ Binman – you can only use one seat at a time. This is interesting. I was pleased when I flew out to Miami in 60J and the seat next to me was free. Meant I could keep the seat partition down, control the blinds, move to the spare seat to sleep. Nope, i didnt pay for 2 seats, but I did enjoy being able to spread out and use 2 seats…….and have an extra pillow!

@ VintageKrug, if cabin and flight crew should be equally accoutable, shouldnt the 60B seat issue (Captains additional sleep seat) now be released for passenger use and revenue, when not being used for purpose intended. (Or of course, it could be changed to a Honeymooners suite!)

Wooooow, I love being 51……!

[SwissExPat]

Last year on a EK flight from Asia to DXB, the catering in F had only one cheese board loaded. I asked for one (having seen another PAX having one) and the CDS told me there were none left which was a surprise to him too! We had a bit of am amicable chat about the catering etc and without me suggesting anything, he arrived at my seat 30 mins before landing with a duty free bag and 2 (0.75l) bottles of premium red wine (that were on the F wine list) as a goodwill gesture for the minor catering problem.

Thinking aloud, I assume that on return, crews would need to account for all wine bottles on a flight especially the premium ones that were probably US$100 each! I did not sign any chit.

Something similar happened to me on BA in J a few years back (1 bottle of premium red) due to some seat problem.

I’d have throught that this type of ‘compensation’ or ‘bonus’ would be frought with problems for the Crew?

[LuganoPirate]

I’m always annoyed, having paid full bucks for my seat in F, when people are upgraded after the doors have closed. I’m glad that Swiss never (or hardly ever) give free upgrades fom C to F, though they will more often from a full Y fare to C if it’s a Gold card holder as well.

[LuganoPirate]

Hi SwissExPat, I think most airlines give a bit more leeway to their crew than do BA and allow them a certain amount of autonomy. I too have been offered bottles of wine to take home from LX, LH, QR, SIN and KLM. It usually comes with the words “enjoy this at home as you don’t drink on board”! It has never ever happened with BA.

[VintageKrug]

I’ve probably received about a dozen bottles of champagne and one very nice bottle of especially good red from various CSDs over the years, mainly aboard BA.

I’m sure I would have received similar from Virgin, but they had probably run out of ‘poo by then, and their wine is often undrinkable.

I think it’s a nice gesture when things go wrong, but I can’t say it was really necessary in some of those situations, where I would happily have been placated with some miles or a phone call after the flight.

It may seem like a good gesture, but the cost is not inconsiderable when you think of it happening maybe ten times per day across the network. Even at £20/bottle wholesale that works out at well over £50,000 per annum.

Such instant service recovery can result in serious issues not being reported through the normal channels, which means BA may never find out there was a problem and therefore is less able to understand the scale of the issue and take steps to address whatever it was.

[HonestCrew]

@Martyn.
I’d say for myself approx once a month (so 1 in 4 flights) passengers tell me it is their honeymoon/anniversary. Or it appears on the passenger manifest (which means they have told the check-in staff.) It highlights an air of expectation many people have. It is they who expect special treatment. In years gone by, at my other airlines too, not just BA, it was common to do what we could to make their special trip that little bit extra special. Occasionally bumping them up if it could be done subtly without arousing attention from other pax.

These days, we politely decline the obvious requests for upgrades and usually offer a glass of champers to show we do care.

Offering a bottle to take with them was always a nice gesture. Unfortunately nowadays, should the passenger write to BA to say thank you or to compliment the crew, if they mention receiving a bottle of bubbly then guess who is hauled into the office???

Of course, if we sorted out everyone who was celebrating something (or just trying it on) on a particular day ……. …….. but it doesn’t stop people asking.

You would be surprised too the number of people who get shirty when they are not upgraded. I mean, I have no problem with people asking but don’t look down on me when I have to douse the fire of your overly high expectations.

[MartynSinclair]

Probably fair to say that the “upgrade” problem was casued by historic issues. Just becasue it happened in the past………………

A friend recently used the “wedding anniversary”, wrote to the cruise line and ended up with a cabin upgrade.

You never hear about upgrade requests on the rail!!!!

Best way to ensure an upgrade is as has often been paid, show your credit card!

[SimonS1]

I’ve never understood why people expect that because it’s their honeymoon they should be entitled to a freebie from the airline.

[VintageKrug]

I think the best solution is to have a formal policy of “no upgrades” but that where operational need exists, mentioning a special event might perhaps help them to the top of the upgrade priority tree.

Which I’d imagine is how it’s done now.

It would be good to empower crew to offer a glass of champagne to honeymooners in economy (on my single exLGW Premium Economy experiment, sparkling wine was offered. I declined, but was then brought something nicer from up front.)

A glass to be consumed on board is, I think, appropriate a nice gesture. Offering a full bottle over eggs the pudding somewhat, and is in my opinion beyond the remit of cabin crew; having accepted these gifts in the past I feel somewhat compromised, but I know that apart from the obvious embarrassment refusal can cause, giving it back might attract unwanted attention to the gift, which could get the individual in trouble.

What os the formal position from BA with regard to crew’s ability to give a bottle to customers? And what’s the tax position giving away bonded goods?

Time for a dip in the pool now, I think, as it’s jolly hot here in London.

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