[Bucksnet]

Henkel.Trocken, normal long haul crew agreement states that they will have at least 2 days rest at destination before flying back, as far as I know. This is clearly ridiculous for a 4 hour flight and would make the route unprofitable, so long haul products could not be offered. Crew not on those terms could fly out and back in one shift, so avoiding 2 nights hotel costs, plus large allowances for crew etc.

Therefore long haul planes could be used, which have a much better product than Club Europe. This is of interest to the average customer!

[Hippocampus]

The 747 rotation will almost certainly be Mixed Fleet. As for the 767 rotations, Mixed Fleet are not currently licensed for the 767 so who knows.

And it IS relevant that Mixed Fleet has made this possible. Moscow is a very important route and passengers have been crying out for an improved service for years. What has held this back is that LHR Worldwide crew working practices are too restrictive to operate profitably the Moscow service there and back in a day.

This is an example where Mixed Fleet (which has been the subject of a relentless smear campaign) enables commercial and passenger interests to be put first.

[HonestCrew]

A factor to keep in mind, connected with Hippo’s post,with regards to crewing. CAA regs state crew can only hold licences to operate 3 aircraft types at once.
Currently our Mixed Fleet colleagues operate 777, Airbus(A319/20/21 classed as same type) and are currently learning 747.
Therefore those crew would be unable to operate 767 too. It is unlikely for half of Mixed Fleet to operate 747 and half 767.

So, as it stands, if MF are to operate this route BA would have to replace the 767 with another type.

[VintageKrug]

I understand the 3 aircraft restriction.

But why would it be unlikely for some crew to be certified for service on the 767, others on the 777 with a core trained on 747 and A320? Surely this will be even more of an issue when the fleet transition commences, with the inclusion of the A380 and 787 (or will 777 certification cover 787).

Interested to understand this from a crewmember’s perspective.

[Stowage222]

Guys
Am I missing something?

MF will operate the 747 as a there and back and the Eurofleet crew will continue with the 767 hulls as now, as a there and back.

[VintageKrug]

Yes, I think we get that too.

But the point is that in the future MF will need to have access to all aircraft (esp. 787 and A380s) just in the same way Legacy fleet currently operates all aircraft types (737, 747, 767, 777 and A320, including until recently 757) within the constraint of the 3 licences.

[Stowage222]

Oops VK – our postings hit the site at the same time. Didn’t see your 1227 post. There seems to be no info from BA at the moment about how the licences will be shared once the new hulls arrive.

[dutchyankee]

@Bucksnet, I think it is pretty obvious what Henkel.Trocken meant is that to the average customer it should not matter if this is Mixed Fleet, Legacy, Euro, whatever, the service should be the same, high quality BA standard. If that isn’t possible, then BA have to sort that out. It should be of no consequence to anyone paying to fly BA as to what terms the crew working the flight are working under. The service level should be what BA advertise or better. I, for one, having lived in Moscow years ago, am very happy to see this change, it will be a heck of an improvement over the 767 or A320 (used to even be 737 from LGW when I lived there). This will give BA five different products to sell (considering WT and ET as the same) and no shortage of clients willing to pay extra for F and CW which will undoubtedly compensate for any decrease in number of premium seats (if CE is really classified as ‘Premium.’)

[Potakas]

Q1: Can the Euro Crew operate the Longhaul configuration B767?
I think that the answer is Yes.

Q2: Is there a restriction that the Euro or Worldwide Crews cannot operate on a route that is already served from MF? Can we say that both EF (B767) and MF(B747) will operate this route? It makes more sense. It seems unlikely (for me) that BA will start a new round of negotiations with the Union/Bassa/Worldwide Crew about those thing.

Q3: The MF is already certified for B747s, right? They operate the LAS rotation which is a MF one.

[Stowage222]

Potakas

Q1 – Yes and to longhaul destinations too, if required. They have served DAR/TLV/EBB in days gone by but had to work to WW terms, not Eurofleet.

Q2 – NO. I don’t see any problems in both fleets operating this route. But as the ‘Dutch’ above says, shouldn’t make any difference in the service.

[VintageKrug]

Q3: Yes, they (I assume not all of them) are certified on the 747, 777 and A320 series. Which reaches the three aircraft limit.

[Bucksnet]

dutchyankee, the point is that BA could not offer 747 or 777 service to Moscow unless they use the new crew.

If BA buys BMI then they could merge their 2 DME A320 flights and run 3x 747 daily.

[dutchyankee]

@Bucksnet, I got the point, but the point Henkel.Trocken made which you didn’t seem to get is that a customer such as you or me #1 should not be able to tell the difference between whether the crew is LongHaul, Euro, or Mixed Fleet, and that #2 the service given should be equal regardless of which crew it is. BA make no difference in the fare structure on the basis of it being MF or not, so there should not be an obvious difference in the service, a topic discussed at length in another thread. I am happy if MF work rules allow this improvement to the Moscow service, but I would expect the in-flight service to be of the consistent high quality BA standard that we have the right to expect.

[Bucksnet]

I understand that.

[dutchyankee]

OK. Love your BMI idea.

[Author]

Posts