[Anonymous]

[VintageKrug]

Hippocampus posted – 13/07/2011 15:49 GMT

“Are you referring to the rumour that has been doing the rounds that DME is to be taken over by Mixed Fleet and will operated by a 777 (which wasn’t possible before Mixed Fleet as Worldwide crew working practices prohibited them from doing a trip there and back in a day)?”

Any further news on the likelihood of this coming to fruition?

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

Although this would be very welcome for those travelling on the route, I don’t see the sense in usnig a much larger aircraft, with far higher costs and less premium capacity than the 767 in CE configuration.

Unless BA are losing a lot of business to the competition and need to try to encourage peple back.

I had understood that this route was high load/yield.

[VintageKrug]

The point is that under Mixed Fleet it now becomes cost effective to run a larger aircraft on the route.

Demand is increasing, especially as Russia begins to flex its economic might in London.

More capacity is needed, and with overnight flights, and a short turnaround, this is an ideal way of increasing capacity to meet demand, lowering crewing costs, maximising the use of scarce slots and available airframes (remember the longhaul 767s are being refurbed, so will need to be in Cardiffs for several weeks).

The inclusion of S7 into oneworld will also drive connecting traffic from other Russian cities, so this is the right time to offer an increase in capacity, though I understood a 747 might be making an appearance on this route, rather than a 777:

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/lcnews/public/en_ru

[DisgustedofSwieqi]

I get that, even if a hi-J 744 comes on the route, with 114 premium seats (include T+), that is less than the current max configuration in 134 (IIRC the number from a BA CSD), on a route which allegedly has a strong premium performance.

So double the engines, significantly more crew and less premium seats?

They could still use mixed fleet on a 767.

Unless it is going to stop at DME and then go to somewhere else and return and I don’t know if BA as rights to do this.

[Binman62]

Whilst accepting the point that the 767 can have more club seats than a 747 I think you also need to take into account load factors and competition.

DME is indeed a high yield route but with a lot of competition. It would be a smart move if BA moved this to being a long haul route either with 4 classes to capture the oligarch market!! Even if used as a 3 class configuration the 747 would provide a very attractive product against BMI and Aeroflot. It could lead to higher load factors and undoubtedly higher fares.

I am not keen on the idea of overnight to/from Moscow, it just is not long enough for me, but it will have an attraction to others especially if combined with pre flight dining and a flat bed.

It does however seem that the writing is on the wall for the appalling CE product on routes of this nature and where the revenue opportunities can be exploited.

[Hippocampus]

I think a 4 class 777 would work well on this route. Although there would be a reduction in the overall number of premium seats, yields would improve by offering First, a much better business class product, economy passengers trading up to WT+ and higher WT fares due to personal IFE.

The only barrier may be regulatory clearance to use a 777/747 on this route.

[Bucksnet]

The hi-J 744 would be ideal, however its operating cost would be roughly double a 763. However, higher prices could be charged and BA could capture more traffic from the other 3 airlines on the route.

4 hours is not enough to get some proper sleep, but a late night departure would allow 2-3 hours sleep; better than nothing.

BA really need to sort something out for the longer CE flights.

[continentalclub]

There is a Russo-British bilateral agreement in place for services between Moscow and London. The agreement limits each country to two airlines on the route, and I’m not altogether certain that there mightn’t also be some capacity or aircraft size restrictions too, to maintain the balance between Russian and British-registered services.

I’ll do a bit of Googling!

[AMcWhirter]

As continental club notes, the UK-Russia air services agreement is restrictive and that is why there are so few flights and airlines operating between our two countries. I believe the agreement also places a limit on seat capacity and it certainly restricts the cities which can be served at each end of the route.

That is why there are only flights linking one UK city (London) with St Petersburg and Moscow.

In contrast Germany and Russia have a fairly liberal agreement and therefore you can see what that means in the choice of airlines, routings and destinations available to travellers.

You can even opt for a budget airline should you wish. German Wings serves Moscow while Air Berlin operates to no fewer than nine Russian cities ranging from Irkutsz in the east to St Petersburg in the west.

[Bucksnet]

It seems BA are cutting capacity to Moscow for the winter season, no LH config.

[Hippocampus]

Confirmed today that this is happening from April 2012:

http://press.ba.com/?p=1912#more-1912

[VintageKrug]

Splendid news. Will this be another Mixed Fleet route? MF on 767s as well..?

[Henkel.Trocken]

Does anyone really care whether it is a legacy or mixed fleet route? I don’t see why this point has to be laboured at every possible opportunity. How BA employ their staff is of no interest to the average customer.

[VintageKrug]

It’s certainly of interest how this service will be crewed.

The reason is that MF permits BA to service routes and use products which wouldn’t previously have been possible; this could be an example of that in action.

If so (although I personally doubt MF will be on this route to start with) it gives an indication about the trend for BA to open up new routes and services, and so is of interest to regular travellers.

[Author]

Posts