[Schaible]

Canucklad:

Germanwings does not belong to the airlines which put too much pressure on their flight crew in terms of working hours. The First Officer co-piloting the crashed flight has clocked only 630 hours in 1.5 years employment. This is far below industry average for short/medium haul flight crew.

The new generation of Germanwings pilots (where Andreas Lubitz belonged to) is earning less than the old-generation ex-Lufthansa crew working with different contracts. However they are still much better on than their colleagues at Ryanair, Easyjet etc. Since their take-over by Lufthansa Germanwings is only partly structured and operated like a LCC. In fact, Germanwings is replacing all former domestic and most inner-European LH flights, except out of and into LH’s hubs in FRA and MUC.

I am pretty sure there was another motivation from the First Officer, more like a personal problem (broken relationship etc.).

[MartynSinclair]

2 crew on the flight deck, whilst goes someway to ensuring this tragedy may not happen again, does not really go far enough.

A couple of years ago, when we were discussing BA pilot voluntary redundancies, I quoted a friend and former Captain who decided to retire after an entire career on the flight deck, because he was very uneasy about sharing his “office” with someone he didn’t know (even though they are very well trained).

Large airlines like BA, pilots may never fly with the same pilot a second time.

Perhaps the view should now be that pilots get to know each other and work together not only as a professional team and more than once…

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

Hi MS

I think you are right – having people work together as a team in the cockpit would no doubt lessen the likelihood of a deliberate attempt to crash a plane – though we’d have to accept it doesn’t outright rule it out as 2 people in theory could work together – though much less likely.

I think accountants wouldn’t like it as it makes it harder from a scheduling perspective – so perhaps the logical point is that you have a pool of say 10/20 (you decide) captains / 1st officers who always work together (with agreeable exceptions made in advance – such as disaster recovery). That way you’d work with different people – but the same different people and get to build a relationship and trust structure with them?

[canucklad]

Morning Schailbe
I did make a further comment, stating that I wasn’t specifically talking about this incident. Primarily down to what you’ve alluded too It would be inappropriate to do so.

Lest I remind you , are you talking about the same Germanwings who had pilots on strike ?
Hardly conducive to a stress free working environment.

[rferguson]

My heart bleeds for the families of those that have died. Suicide is such a complex one. Of course my first instinct is to think ‘how DARE you take it upon yourself to take 150 innocent people to their death with you!?’. On the other hand though I know that when someone is suicidal they are not thinking rationally or with logic.

There was discussion going on over on the MH370 thread with some people calling for the flight deck to be even more sterile than the current requirements to protect passenger safety. I expressed my opinion that the ‘closed door policy’ is already adequate and in fact although a necessary thing to prevent lunatics from entering the flight deck it does leave the pilots feeling even more isolated and disconnected at times.

It’s a fact that a certain percentage of the population will suffer mental health issues at some point in their lives – some extremely serious. What job you do, your socio economic status does not factor. ‘God like’ pilots with great career prospects and seemingly glamorous work lives included.

Now – put someone with a serious mental condition in the confines of a space the size of a couple wardrobes with one other person (often of an entirely different generation and background) and keep them in there for hours at end with the majority of their communication not face to face but via interphone or radio. Thankfully, these guys can still pop out to ‘stretch their legs’ but some carriers (ie US ones) frown upon this and some of the public are calling for the cockpit crew to stay locked in at ALL times to prevent a breach.

Now factor in the environment of your average flight deck crew – macho, ex forces, cars, sports, technical technical technical. Having problems at home with the other half? Feeling a bit down and depressed? It’s not the environment expressing ‘feelings’ is really encouraged – unlike us on the other side of the door whom have shared our life stories before the wheels are retracted.

And then factor in the time spent away from home (although I realise this is probably not a factor for a short haul budget airline pilot). Years ago the crew would all get together and socialise. After a few drinks the guard would come down, we’d talk. Now….rest periods have gotten shorter. But the biggest factor is that we are now ‘connected’ to home like never before. Forget meeting with the crew for drinks! We are in our rooms on our smartphones/ipads/laptops in touch with our ‘real’ loved ones and family via skype/facebook/whatsapp etc etc etc. I’m not saying socialising doesn’t happen at all anymore, but it is definitely a fraction of what it used to be. For those experiencing depressions/problems at home/a recent break up etc etc it can be incredibly lonely and isolating.

And finally, we have the process of identifying pilots with mental health issues. Yes, they have regular medical checks. But the reality is, unless someone ‘self presents’ with an ‘issue’ it’s unlikely to be picked up. We all know that for a couple hours of a day we can cover up the ‘real self’ and ‘be who we want to be’.

The list of crashes due to pilot suicide is not insignificant.
– Silk Air
– Egyptair.
– Fed Ex (attempted).
– MH370 (??)
– Germanwings.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ rferguson – 27/03/2015 10:49 GMT

Mental illness: still one of the unspoken taboo subjects around the workplace. It’s akin to “coming out” and few will readily admit to having such problems lest it damage career prospects.

[openfly]

@rferguson

A well constructed opinion with which I totally concur.

[rferguson]

Just watching on CNN now – Lufthansa has backtracked and mandated that two people must be on the flight deck at all times.

The german prosecutor has also revealed that torn up sick notes were found in the pilots home covering the period he crashed which related to mental illness.

[MartynSinclair]

Should personal GP’s be given the automatic authority to forward medical evidence to a patients Aviation Dr of Aviation medical authority???

[rferguson]

Martynsinclair that is EXACTLY what the ‘panel of experts’ are asking.

A pilot in the US/europe goes to two company doctor appointments per year. But of course whatever goes on between a pilot and his GP is not shared with the airline. Should it be?

It could be a double edged sword. Would then a pilot not even confide in his GP if he knows the information would be shared with their company? Pilots are (to a degree rightly) petrified that any history of mental illness will stifle future career prospects.

[MartynSinclair]

rferguson – non disclosure invalidates many contracts…. perhaps pilots should be made aware that non disclosure of medical facts, could be a criminal offence.

How many of your colleagues RF, buy batches of sleeping pills in BKK which would cause serious concerns to UK CAA/JAA medical departments.

I speak with a degree of experience, very sadly, I was hooked on them for nearly 25 years.. Very pleased and delighted to confirm that I am “clean” for 3 years…..

[MartynSinclair]

But isn’t that what insurance is for????

[esselle]

Insurance in this instance only counts if it is specific CI, and even then unlikely that an insurer would accept and settle elegantly.

[MartynSinclair]

Loss of License insurance…….??? That’s what insurance is for….. sorry to sound so harsh….

[superchris]

Re pilot suicide – don’t also forget LAM Mozambique in 2013 which was also down to suspected pilot suicide with co pilot locked out and banging on the door.

33 killed.

[Author]

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