[seasonedtraveller]

Following my post above, today’s second flight turned out to be an A320 from Charlotte to Atlanta.
As someone else (edited because i now see it was Karl) posted above….’there for the grace of God go I’
Very somber mood today.

[K1ngston]

Literally just off an Air Asia 320 flight and saw the news, what terrible news!

As with everyone else here my thoughts and condolences go to the families and friends of those effected, as mentioned we need to see what is happening in the Aviation industry another terrible day!

[MrMichael]

News reports are suggesting that one of the pilots was locked out of the cockpit. It is at the moment unconfirmed reports. If that is the case with Silk Air, Egyptair, possibly MAS and others, maybe this locked door rule needs to be looked at. What is the bigger danger, a suicidal nutcase pilot or terrorists?

[K1ngston]

+1 MrMichael and I thought there was a locking password protected door opener to get in which certainly begs the question ….

[MartynSinclair]

When the locked flight deck doors were first introduced it was SOP for a cabin crew member to remain on the flight if one of the pilots left the flight deck during flight (unless there was a third pilot).

Interestingly, this was not for security reasons, but to ensure the remaining pilot could unlatch the door without stretching or leaving his seat.

[LuganoPirate]

I don’t wish to speculate, but I think thoughts of suicide are dangerous, especially as family members of those who died may be reading this and other forum looking for any information as so little is forthcoming at the moment. It could equally have been the Pilot flying had a heart attack and fell forward that caused this?

I’ve always lamented the loss of the navigator on board so on a full flight where just four cabin crew are rushing about trying to get everyone their drinks and meals, at least there would be two competent people in the cockpit if one needed a rest break.

[MartynSinclair]

LP – who says suicide…. “could have been” incapacitated through a medical condition ………… all speculation… but has highlighted the need, regardless whether a locked flight deck door is a factor, that one pilot should not be left alone on the flight deck….

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

Hi All

After I had heard about the gradual decent the 2 thoughts that crossed my mind (in order) were fatal decompression, followed by deliberate crash. I hadn’t considered prospect of only 1 pilot in cockpit and another getting locked out (rules allow this in LH group apparently) – which is ludicrous. I always thought locking cockpit doors had drawbacks – and if this is the case in this situation then no doubt there will be another change in the way cockpits are secured. My guess is that entry in future will be done firstly by bio-measures – such as fingerprint / eye scan access and / or by a 2nd level manual override (passcode or something) if first level fails for whatever reason.

So if reports are true it looks like a measure to make things more secure could have actually lead to the loss of an aircraft with all on board. Very sad.

[AllOverTheGaff]

TimFitzgeraldTC – 26/03/2015 10:40 GMT
My guess is that entry in future will be done firstly by bio-measures – such as fingerprint / eye scan access and / or by a 2nd level manual override (passcode or something) if first level fails for whatever reason.

Biometric readers are widely available and not in the least an expensive investment for any airline, I worked in this industry for many years.

In a terrorist situation, readers can be programmed to ‘lock out’ a would be attacker. For example, if somehow a terrorist had a pilot hostage (lets assume pilot has come out for comfort break), should pilot present wrong finger to the reader, it will activate a default lock which can then only be accessed from inside the cockpit, thereby locking out any would-be attack.

Sadly, the airlines have gone for cheap and nasty measures to secure the cockpit, and like you Tim, I’ve long since questioned this in the case of a terrorist somehow gaining access to the cockpit, there really is no way for anyone to get in.

In this tragic case, the pilot would have easily gained access to the cockpit had the right equipment been on the door, and I am sure with the help of frantic passengers, could have removed co pilot from the seat.

What a bloody hideously awful experience it must have been to have been a passenger on that flight.

May they rest in peace.

Regards.
AOTG.

[LuganoPirate]

Reuters reporting the French Public Prosecutor says plane was deliberately crashed and names co-pilot but says no terrorist links to him.

[canucklad]

Sky News has now named the pilot co-pilot.

This is just so tragic. If the reports are true, then it is definitely a rare case of the aviation industry not learning it’s lessons from past tragedies.

And without speculating on the specifics of this case, the airline industry chiefs really needs to take a long hard look at themselves……..

It doesn’t take a psychiatric genius to figure out how predicable cases like SilkAir are going to become, especially on LCC’s.

Firstly you start with an all too understandable kneejerk reaction to the events of 9/11, fortified by a paranoiac group of so called terrorist experts in Homeland security. Singularly focussing on a solution to one society changing event, not the bigger picture , thus failing to come up with a commom sense approach to cockpit security. Resulting in the isolation, in a cramped working space of human beings, doing what is already a pressurised job.

Then the airline execs start to demand harder work schedules and tighter controls over cost. Some airlines even exercising the right, through their terms of employment , the right to sanction non- compliant pilots with punitive fines. Further increasing their stress levels.

Then, the airline chiefs, continue to add to the misery, as in the case of EZ, by forcing down, in real terms pilots earnings.

Sadly, under current economic and work conditions, scenario’s like SilkAir and others are going to become more and more common. Why people are surprised that overworked, fatigued and financially worried human beings are mentally troubled, simply baffles me.

It’s not as if it’s a new phenomenon.

I’ll add, if it transpres that this is a deliberate action, then my anger at those decision makers will be palpable. So easily avoided!!

I really feel for the relatives …

[AnthonyDunn]

The BBC is reporting that, on the basis of the CVR alone, the French prosecuting authorities have stated that they have determined what happened: the co-pilot deliberately crashed the aircraft. The French authorities say that there is no terrorist link – at least at this point.

Regarding motivation, there is nothing at this time.

[esselle]

Canucklad

Are you really saying it is the fault of the employer that stress levels rise to the degree that would cause an employee to do such a thing? Surely not.

[TMConsulting]

Canucklad + 1 for the stress and financial pressure
Esselle + 1 too… not sure that airlines execs are the sole responsible for the pressure on cost.

It reminds me of a tv documentary about Ryanair… Show cabin crew who could hardly make a living once all cost (and reimbursement of their 1 month training cost) had been levied from their salary… and having no choice but to keep working for the airline so long their training lawn had not been fully repaid.

The documentary might have been slightly one-sided when stating that this could be considered modern slavery but still…

I think travellers could also be held somehow responsible for always wanting more and cheaper… Tell anyone a London-Paris return cost GBP 400.00 and you’ll be laughed at. But that was pretty standard 10 years ago…

[AllOverTheGaff]

TMConsulting – 26/03/2015 13:51 GMT
I think travellers could also be held somehow responsible for always wanting more and cheaper… Tell anyone a London-Paris return cost GBP 400.00 and you’ll be laughed at. But that was pretty standard 10 years ago…

Except when you factor in just how much profit these airlines are returning, 1.042 Billion Euros of operating profit for the Lufthansa group in 2014, so I don’t think I, as a passenger, should bear any responsibility whatsoever for airlines driving costs and standards down.

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