[NTarrant]

Yes, VK is correct, there is also Porterbrook who were owned by Stagecoach but sold to, I think, RBS or BoS.

In Scotland, whilst the railways are operated by First, you will notice that on certainly new stock, there is no reference to First in the fleet name. This because Transport Scotland want it to be Scotrail and not First Scotrail or whoever gets the next franchise. Essentially Transport Scotland will call the tune and First or whoever runs it in the future will just be the operator.

You should not knock the fact that a number of railways are operated by what were essentially just bus operators. The increase in passengers can be attributed to bus operational principles as I mentioned before. First actually doesn’t make as much money as some other industries or some of its peers.

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

Almost all Rolling Stock in the UK is not owned by the franchise but leased. Likewise staff will be transferred to the new franchise (accept senior management who may not go). So whoever runs West Coast will still use the Pendolino and current staff for the forseebale future. I am hugely disappointed that First Group won this one as they are the worst rail operator in the country by a considerable distance. I actually like the old HST’s they operate as they are very quiet – but the configuration and service in the coaches in horrendous (also partly the fault of the HSE with there ridiculous regulations) and when First Group say they will refurbish the Pendolino this brings shudders down my spine as I use West Coat a lot more than Great Western.

Virgin aren’t perfert and Pendolino’s aren’t perfect but they are streets ahead of the competition. And things like direct services to Bolton would probably have happened under Virgin anyway once the line gets overhead electric in the next few years.

The post about Wrexham – Virgin never operated this route – it was an offshot of Chiltern and sadly they couldn’t make it pay (for various reasons). Be good for the direct services to come back though.

The sad thing is with the huge amounts being paid to the Government to run this line don’t actually go to the rail industry to reinvest directly. Instead it goes to the treasury to spend as they see fit. I’d be happier if it was spent directly on Rail enhancements (more train lengthening – not all pendolinos are being extended to 11 coaches for example). Whilst privatisation has given us many benefits there is still an opportunity to reduce the complexity of the privatised railways in a more unified structure – sadly this has been missed and we still have a pigs hear of a network with no coherent long term strategy for growth and enhancement. Typical of the DofT and successive governments!

[BusinessTraveller]

Some of the questions raised here have been answered in the news piece I wrote yesterday. In particular a number of people are asking from where First will obtain its trains.

As I mentioned, and as VK, NTarrant and TimFitzgeraldTC have noted in subsequent posts, Virgin Trains leases the rolling stock from Angel Trains and so First will simply take them over.

I also believe that First will tackle a main criticism of Virgin Trains in that it exploits business people by charging very high fares if you need flexibility or must travel at peak times. In effect business people are subsidising those cheap Advance fares.

As Stephen Joseph of the Campaign for Better Transport noted,

“There have been issues with very high walk-up fares and very low Advance fares on journeys between London and Manchester.”

Comparing prices on London-Manchester we see the cheapest standard class return fare between Monday and Friday costing £296. (Flexible first class costs £423). There is a cheaper £74.20 Saver fare but it cannot be used before 0940 which means you don’t arrive into Manchester until 1149 which is clearly too late for anyone having a morning appointment.

It is true there are cheaper Advance fares (these start at £12 one-way if you book weeks ahead) but they commit you to specific trains in both directions.

Interviewed on Channel 4 last night, First’s CEO Tim O’Toole said he will cut the cost of flexible standard class fares to encourage more business people to use them. It’s one way, he says, which would enable First to drive up the “yield” per ticket and therefore earn more revenue overall.

Another innovation which First might adopt is a sort of loyalty rate for passengers using its new West Coast services who connect onto other First-owned TOCs.

As NTarrant notes, First operates a number of TOCs including Scotrail. It would be logical to assume, and I do hope it happens, that passengers taking West Coast trains to Glasgow/Edinburgh would qualify for attractive Scotrail fares including a railpass option.

Alex McWhirter

[andystock]

The Voygers between Birmigham to Scotland are being replaced by new 125 mph 6 Car elec trains. A route which is under the wires all the way yet Virgin used Diseal trains on??? I guess 1 coach of First Class seating will be converted to standard class seating on the Pendolinos.

Anyone idea’s about catering as the coffee from the shop on the Pendolions is actually drinkable!

[TerryMcManus24]

First Capital Connect who operate our north London commuter route money spinner into deepest Hertfordshire still run the well tested British Rail Class 313 units built from around 1975.
Constructed by BR Engineering…remember them.. they must be the oldest running trains in the UK and surely would have been paid off by now.
Maybe First will transfer them to the west coast route and really give the tourists something to think about.(or complain)
Whos needs speed,A/C,comfort etc with such a nice little earner….aint broke so why bother fixing and all that…harumpt again

[Shearer]

Diesel trains under wires is not the fault of Virgin Trains, but down to the DfT.

[NTarrant]

Indeed, what most don’t realise is that most of the TOC’s would do things a lot differently if it were not for the DfT, who are not train people.

[andystock]

The 313 – Moorgate trains are ok for the route they are on
, short distance stopping service. The cost of replacing them will be huge as they are dual voltage and need to have a lower roof than all other trains to fit in the Moorgate tunnel. So you have to design a train for that repute only.

We could have a London Overground train with few seats!

[canucklad]

Having thought about this private franchise nonsense a bit more— as a consumer would I have a case for taking this lot to the monopolies commision— it seems to me that there is very few routes where train operators compete head to head. And when they do , say Waverley to York the price is fixed ( unless you have the hunting skills of a web weasel) with the ticket normally stating any route permitted. Is there any other private service companies in the UK that’s allowed to have such business practices. Or as I said earlier in the day am I just being a Thursday dunce. !

[tiggerbrown]

@ openfly re: “A positive result of this will be that I will not be surrounded in Upper Class by all the Virgin rail employees and their numerous kids consuming copious quantities of alcohol and making loud converstaion….on their free staff tickets.”

Virgin Trains staff do not get any free tickets on VS

[NTarrant]

Canucklad – sorry but no you can’t and of course you can’t force anyone to compete. With a few exceptions under open access anyone can run a train service, lease your own stock etc, but it is incredably expensive to do so and Network Rail will dictate the times you can run your train.

There is some limited competition between TOC’s, for example between Portsmouth and London you have the choice of SWT to Waterloo or Southern to Victoria, the SWT route being the quickest of the two, but Southern have cheaper fares for travelling on their services. SWT on the other hand only sell the fares which are valid on both.

The same between London and Birmingham with Virgin (soon to be First) and London Midland. Under BR the fare between either of the examples would be the same, but you do have the choice of a slower journey but at a cheaper fare.

[VintageKrug]

So what are First saying they will do to deliver these efficiences?

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

If you don’t like the fact that First have won then you can sign this E-petition asking that the DofT review the decision.

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/37180

Hopefully they’ll get to 100,000 signatures in no time at all.

[Bucksnet]

Signed. 13,942 at the moment, so should not be long now.

[Bill_Hants]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19324962

[Author]

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