[Anonymous]

[Bucksnet]

So they have won: –

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/9476445/FirstGroup-awarded-West-Coast-rail-contract-Virgin-Trains-prepares-legal-fight.html

Virgin prepares legal fight and union warns of major industrial battle.

[VintageKrug]

A shame, as I liked what Virgin had done with the route.

However, this appears to be the best deal for the taxpayer, and that has to be the priority.

[Bullfrog]

Without knowing the detail, as an observer, the Government has acted like ‘Fred Goodwin’. Maximum cash revenue ie bonus, without any real care of the staff, public or future of the industry.

Sadly as a staunch Tory, I have to say “Shame on you”.

[canucklad]

Virgin spokesman pretty much say’s there won’t be a legal challenge—- sounds like they’ve had enough of managing a rail business—too much hassle— And Bullfrog, this just re-enforces , rightly or wrongly that the Tory party don’t care about the working man—To accept a bid that states redundancies and closures as part of the bid is scandalous !

[seanyjmuclhr]

This is a sad news. Ever since First has run FGW and Scotrail, fares have rocketed and service levels have continued to go down. No real invesment has been made in rolling stock with Thames Turbo trains continuing to serve most commuter lines out of Paddington with ridiculously shabby-looking rolling stock and short trains at peak times, diesel-powered trains that are some 20 years old.

If this is how they are to run the WCML, then we are in for an ever rougher ride. While I was no huge fan of VT, they did do a lot for better rolling stock, cheaper advance fares and increase frequencies, something that – in my opinion – First has never done on the lines they run.

But as one lady on the BBC news so eloquently put it, we are all prisoners of the railways – there is nothing we can do other than find alternative means of transport, which is just ludicrous.

Yet again, I hang my head in shame over the state of Britain’s railways. For a country that played such an important part in the development of rail travel, we just continue to go backwards while the rest of the developed world gets on with delivering quality rail travel at affordable prices.

If you are a betting person, I would seriously have a flutter on how long (or little time) it takes First before they want to get out of their WCML contract. Both GNER and NXEC both had to walk away from their ECML contract because they underbid, let’s see how First fares on the WCML. No pun intended.

[canucklad]

Just to fuel Bucksnets conspiracy theories—could this be re-nationalization via the back door– 18 months down the line , forgive the pun…the government takes over the WCML and as aresult now own franchises on the 2 primary routes in the UK !

[JordanD]

Just to throw this into the mix: let’s not forget VT has actively blocked Open Access Operators operating on the WCML (vis a vis Hull Trains, Grand Central on ECML) and so stifiling competition.

It’s a sad day, but let’s not try to rose colour tint it too much.

[VintageKrug]

There are some significant penalty clauses in the contract – which is different from others from which First extricated itself in the past. So I don’t see any danger of them pulling out.

The government has no appetite whatsoever to take on the liability of running the railways.

I don’t really understand this tolerance for inefficiency and abhorrence for trimming the fat.

Yes, indeed it would be nice to give everyone a non-job, overpaid for work which simply isn’t productive. But that harms everyone – the whole economy – in the long term, and only postpones the inevitable for those in such roles.

If efficiencies and redundancies are necessary to keep costs down – and that translates into keeping fares down – then surely that’s a good thing?

There’s some confused thinking here – on the one hand people want the contract to be awarded to a provider which seeks to maximise its own profit while reducing the contribution to OUR Treasury, all the while keeping people employed where, despite the over-resourcing it is clearly stated that posters are “no fan” of the current set up, which isn’t particularly exceeding our expectations.

ON the other hand people are criticising a provider which is seeking to reduce its cost base and return the maximum amount to OUR Treasury.

You can’t have it both ways.

I think the First is the least worst option for the long term success of the line. But also probably quite good news for BA’s LHR-MAN shuttles, too…! 😉

[canucklad]

VK…From a consumer’s point of view, and by that i mean Customer not User !! …… I expect the following from UK PLC Railways……
starting with the ease of purchasing a ticket rather than the Einstein brains it takes to avoid being fleeced !…then

1) Price should be less than me using private transport…unless I choose to travel First.—Trains are public transport where I have to share my space with all sorts of characters!

2) Price should be less than flying to appeal to my tree hugging tendancies

3) Once on-board I expect to sit in a seat…a seat that i’ve paid for !

4) I expect not to be harrassed out my seat because of double bookings or reduced carriages etc!

5) I expect to travel in a timely manner, not 6-7 hours to travel from Waverley to Derby.

6) I expect to arrive at the scheduled time—late is becoming more of a norm lately

7) Most of all having paid for a ticket I expect to be treated like a human being who by choosing to pay for a particular service is keeping the employees of these companies in a job…not treated with suspicion everytime my ticket is checked…

Our railways are appaling for the price we as customers are forced to pay…. Can’t really call ourselves consumers because consumers have choice !!

That’s all i ask of our railways !!

[sparkyflier]

This is sad new indeed. Having used the First Great Western network many times to the south-west, I was hoping they would lose that franchise, never mind get another one.

[VintageKrug]

Not unreasonable expectations, except that the private car (once you’ve got one) is very often apparently cheaper and more efficient as a means of getting around. Of course you have to take into account your 200ish miles London-Manchester may cost £46rtn for a ticket advance purchase vs. about £160 when claiming round tripmileage. But you need to add in the additional costs of the railway (tube/cabs at each end, the time wasted waiting door to door) vs. its advantages (ability to be productive en route – though I get very trainsick on the Pendolinos).

So while you may manage London-Manchester rtn on a tank of fuel which costs about £80 in a mid-size car, most people would probably say that £46 plus a cab at each end works out about the same.

But that disguises the fact that the car has many other costs attached, such that the real costs could be double or more (taking into account wear and tear, purchase price, cost of tax, insurance, lack of productivity) than that apparent to most consumers. So the car journey *really* costs more like £150 rtn – far closer to the HMRC approved amount – which most people would probably say is too much for a return train ticket.

As an aside, I think I read somewhere that the increased subsidy in recent years was largely to pay for essential improvements as a consequence of the Hatfield Rail Crash. Now that investment is complete, the subsidy should quite rightly come down.

[LuganoPirate]

I’ve never travelled this route so can’t comment on who will run it better/cheaper/more efficiently etc.

I just wonder what happens to all the trains. Do Virgin sell them to First or do they try and flog them somewhere else? And without trains how do First run the service. Likewise the employees. Are they all out of work and First rehires or do they just get their paycheck from a new employer?

Just curious!

[Shearer]

A few things worth noting:

– the difference in bids was not the wide margin expected.
– First has arranged a higher “bond” so will lose more if they walk away
– First are promising to reintroduce London connections for Shrewbury, Blackpool and Bolton. Shrewbury lost their connection last year when Virgin had Wrexham and Shropshire closed down.
– First are promising a 15% reduction in Standard Anytime fares.
– First price rises on Great Western have not been as severe as Virgin West Coast – Virgin hid theirs through the super low Advance tickets.

Virgin were not angels, neither are First.
As I read on Twitter it’s a bit like a “It’s not gonorrhea! It’s syphilis!” conversation!

[BusinessTraveller]

Our consumer editor Alex McWhirter has now published a piece on this which can be read here:

http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/virgin-trains-loses-west-coast-franchise

[Author]

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