[VintageKrug]

I think clusterbomb is both a sanitised and accurate description of the situation.

A very cogent analysis; it doesn’t take a genius to recognise Government procurement is systemically broken, especially by the culture of “paper-over-the-cracks, overspend and no-one will notice”.

That HAS to stop, and hopefully this will be a turning point, and will benefit us all in the long term.

[AnthonyDunn]

1nfrequent – 04/10/2012 10:59 GMT

Eureka! An intelligent and cogent analysis pointing out the “multi-faceted” nature of some public sector procurements – and the muddling, “bodging” and money wasting that sometimes (but NOT always) ensues.

Did any of you listen to this morning’s BBC Radio 4 “Today” programme? Margaret Hodge MP, Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, opined that a major problem in public sector procurement is the lack of continuity owing to staff moving on every couple of years – that’s my own (previous) experience.

Later, Lord Gus O’Donnell, former head of the Home Civil Service, was also interviewed. His response was straightforward: the Civil Service does not have and cannot attract the quality of procurement manager required for the expanding range of public sector contracting-out because of pay rates. That’s “pay peanuts and get monkeys” for the rest of you.

He added that following pay cuts, pension cuts and job cuts, ministers were now attacking their own staff thereby driving down staff morale even further. A perfect storm that some of you appear to support after years of brain-addling reading of Daily Mail and Torygraph editorials – rather than arising from any meaningful public sector experience.

SimonS1. From your choice of examples, I am left wondering whether you are one of the “Masters of the Universe” who’ve steadfastly refused to attend the BBCTV “Newsnight” studio for the past four years so that they can avoid explaining the catastrophe brought upon our economy by incompetence, greed and venality in the financial services sector. Responding to your entirely tendentious remarks, the FSA was designed BY the City of London and FOR the City of London. That is why it delivered “light touch” regulation and why it is that any fines levied by the FSA revert back to the member companies/entities in the City of London and they do not accrue to HM Treasury. And your LIBOR comment is simply another attempt to fudge the issue. Barclays’ traders chose to doctor their lending rates for their own pecuniary advantage – nothing more, nothing less. I await your defence of Barclays and others when the fraud charges are (eventually) laid.

Notwithstanding that Francis Maude is long on accusations but short on examples, I agree with him about the “process driven and risk averse” nature of the Civil Service. But, surprise, surprise, it’s NOT a business and it is there to provide neutral advice and continuity. Or are we to have a US style Civil Service with paid up party apparatchiks in senior positions?

[SimonS1]

I don’t think Francis Maude was referring to neutral advice and continuity, he was referring to civil servants “blocking and failing to implement government policy”.

That to me seems to be two very separate things.

As far as the FSA and BofE are concerned, it has always been the case the the private sector run the businesses (in this case banks) and the regulators regulate on behalf of the Government. In this case neither did a very good job and I wouldn’t try and defend either.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ SimonS1 – 04/10/2012 15:31 GMT

To repeat: the FSA was a construct designed BY and FOR the City of London and NOT by and for HM Government. That is a principal reason for its lack of teeth as an effective regulatory regime. You cannot have it both ways. As for Francis Maude: where’s the evidence: which policies, which departments and which Civil Servants?

Getting back to the thread… for those with an FT subscription the full “West Coast fiasco exposes skills gap” article is at:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/094c50f2-0df8-11e2-8b92-00144feabdc0.html#axzz28IwERwJe

but a small excerpt:

“…Lord O’Donnell, who stepped down in December, called on the government to raise pay for some jobs, saying “arbitrary constraints like [the reference to] the prime minister’s salary aren’t helpful”.

He told the BBC’s Today programme on Thursday morning that the public sector often lost “hard-headed, commercial” employees to private companies because pay was an important measure of how much they felt valued and they were less likely to be attracted by the ethos of public sector work.

Lord O’Donnell also said ministers should praise civil servants more, warning it is “self-defeating” to attack your own staff, especially when they are accepting real term pay cuts and having their pensions reduced.

The CBI said the cancellation showed the government sometimes struggles with big procurements.

“An urgent focus is needed to improve its commercial skills and expertise so that this does not happen again, especially with several large franchises up for renewal over the next 18 months,” said John Cridland, director-general of the CBI.”

[BeckyBoop]

Isn’t it annoying when something you’ve paid for gets cancelled, commuters ask FirstGroup

http://newsthump.com/2012/10/03/isnt-it-annoying-when-something-youve-paid-for-gets-cancelled-commuters-ask-firstgroup/#ixzz28MMQ10pr

[SimonS1]

Indeed Anthony – but then as a career Civil Servant I would expect Gus O’Donnell to start blaming everyone else. Stepped down 10 months ago and his views are given on the very day a major cock up is perpetuated. How convenient. Wind up a good story about poor pay etc to paper over a massive cock up.

As for the FSA, it might have been put together by the City but it could only have been achieved with the acquiescence of the Government. At what stage did you hear civil servants or ministers speaking out saying “we are concerned the FSA is not doing a thorough job”? (Clue: being wise after the event does not count…).

[andystock]

tried getting a train from London to Manchester / Wigan on xmas eve, fare quoted £144 with 3/4 changes. Ended up getting the BA shuttle for £23.50 plus 3600 points. This just shows how expensive are railways can be.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ SimonS1 – 04/10/2012 20:47 GMT

Not being wise after the event but instead having a clear recollection of events at the time: the City were repeating the mantra that a “light touch” qua-self regulatory system was all that was needed and that to go down the road of a more heavy-handed regime would (then as now….) “drive business abroad….” The then LabLiar government, ever fearful that the cash (tax) source for their slot-machine would dry up would not say “Booh!” to a goose and Balls most certainly did not have the cajones to say “No!” Let us also remember that the Tories were in favour of even less a regulatory burden. It was only the likes of St. Vincent of Twickenham who kept pointing out what was going to happen – but who was pooh-poohed then as now by the likes of your good self.

Getting back to the issue of the WCML franchise bid evaluation and an excerpt from the FT’s editorial 4 October 2012 entitled “Value for Money”:

…Which civil servant has not met a minister who wanted results that were politically necessary yet practically undoable? Politics can create pressure for creating evidence to fit a policy rather than the other way round. Public austerity only intensifies such pressures.

For the West Coast main line, it is vital to discover whether the debacle was caused as much by unrealistic ministerial demands as civil service incompetence. The service itself must have the professionalism and independence to tell ministers when something cannot be done. Francis Maude, Cabinet Office minister, has called for greater subservience to politicians from department permanent secretaries. That way lie only dangers.

Gus O’Donnell, former head of the civil service, warns that low pay drives away private sector talent from public service. But a confident and competent bureaucracy is not all a matter of pay. In the West Coast case, one official in charge seems to have had just the private sector experience the civil service supposedly needed.

Still, Lord O’Donnell is right. It is a false economy to cut civil service pay in a way that drives out those best equipped to get value for money. Better to cut staff numbers and remunerate better those who are retained. The country needs a civil service – in departments or in a separate unit – capable of securing value for money”.

As one would expect of the FT, a considerably more thoughtful, balanced, nuanced and constructive appraisal than many that have appeared on BT.

[SimonS1]

The thing is, Anthony, pay constraints are a factor in all businesses. Of course people should stand up for themselves, however if Gus O’Donnell is arguing for pay increases right now is a bit wide of the mark. When you throw in the cost of the pension model (which experts say has not reduced despite the attempts at a restructure) then it just isn’t sustainable.

Why don’t we just accept it, a big one has been dropped here, and it is going to cost ordinary tax payers like you an I a lot of money.

[BigDog.]

The paragon of press integrity, the epitome of ethical reporting and understatement, the Daily Hate, provides further revelations.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2213163/West-Coast-Main-Line-Rail-bid-civil-servants-exchanged-derogatory-emails-Virgin-boss-Richard-Branson.html

alternatively the claim that Department for Transport was handed an independent report highlighting the flaws in the West Coast rail franchise bid process five days before it awarded the contract to FirstGroup – is reported here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/transport/9588164/Europa-report-alerted-Government-to-West-Coast-flaws.html

[SimonS1]

So Anthony, today it is revealed that more than 2,400 civil servants have not been paying PAYE on their earnings, instead preferring to rely on off payroll contracts!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19839836

It hasn’t exactly been a vintage week for the civil service then. Perhaps those involved in the great West Coast shambles were too busy worrying about how to avoid paying their fair share of taxes? What a shabby state of affairs.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ BigDog. – 05/10/2012 09:33 GMT

These articles are entirely consistent with a previous FT item I reported which made clear that the 2006 WCML contract renegotiation had so infuriated DfT officials that they’d almost determined to “settle scores” with Virgin Trains. It looks as if they might just have become so blinkered that they have blown up the entire franchising and bid evaluation system in the process.

@ SimonS1 – 05/10/2012 12:22 GMT

I too am astonished at how some 2,400 “Civil Servants” can get away with not being on PAYE. The issue is: are they really “Civil Servants” or are they contractors? There is no indication in the BBC article. BTW, the same Commons’ investigation pointed up the same issue with the BBC and the question clearly becomes the Inland Revenue’s interpretation of employed as opposed to contractor status.

But, I rather doubt that, coming from where you are coming from, there will ever be a “vintage week” for the Civil Service….

[VintageKrug]

There does seem to have been some “score settling” here.

It will be interesting to see whether this was purely politically motivated, or whether there was corruption involved. I’m hopeful that’s it’s the lesser of two evils.

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

AndyStock

I have to take umbrage with your comment. If you read the below article you’ll find that the line is closed on the day in question.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/sep/20/rail-passengers-face-christmas-travel-chaos

If you travel on the 22nd you could get a one way direct for £25. Normally a walk on off peak single is £73.20. So your point is incorrect with the stats given. If you have relied on technology to give you this fare then maybe you should actually talk to a person who knows what they are doing. Going online isn’t always cheapest.

If Manchester Airport was closed for resurfacing of the runways then they would have issues. It isn’t a great time for engineering works granted, but to use twisted data to show that trains are expensive is just crazy and undermines any comments you may make.

Sorry to be so strong and nothing personal – but it is things like that which really frustrate me. If you didn’t have miles the flight would have been more expensive. Don’t compare table wine with fine quality champagne. Compare like with like!!

[TerryMcManus24]

Latest estimates of the good old British rail tender fiasco now put them up to @ 300 million and with 15 new franchaises in the pipeline maybe the government/ D of T should put aside what…say 4-5 Billion pounds….just in case.

Boy scout motto ..”.Be Prepared.”

Assume also that those jolly nice chaps in the Civil Service are ALL on the London Living wage and not the National minimum however a spot of bonus would surely not go amiss
What was that old ABBA song?

[Author]

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