Finnair and the EU261 dodge.

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This topic contains 60 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  MartynSinclair 31 Mar 2018
at 15:36
.

Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 61 total)

  • FDOS_UK
    Participant

    To save anyone the effort, this is the address from Companies House – Finnair has registered a UK branch of its business at the address below

    FINNAIR OYJ

    (Branch Number) BR009610 – Opened on 1 January 1993

    Oneuston Square
    40 Melton Street
    London NW1 2FD

    Ian, your points are good – the particular problem with Finnair arises in Finnish juridiction, where there is no small claims system equivalent to the UK.

    When I lived in Malta, it was the same there and companies were alomost unaacountable as a consequence.

    Since I moved back to the UK, I’ve used MCOL twice (for intransigent companies, behaving unreasonably), and won twice – people in the UK should be grateful for MCOL, a very good process, which levels the playing field for the individual consumer or small business havnig a dispute with a large corporation.


    capetonianm
    Participant

    I served my letter before action on Lufthansa to their UK address at World Business Centre in Happy Hounslow and they have until later this week to respond, failing which I only have to hit the button to issue the MCOL process. It’s all set up. I’ve used it successfully three or four times against individuals and one company.

    They have called me several times to tell me that I “can’t claim” because the delay and consequent missed connection was due to WX. I believe I have more than enough information collated from various sources to prove that they did not take adequate measures to prevent the missed connection, and that it was not due to extraordinary or unforeseen circumstances, more so as the delay on the inbound flight to LHR was out of their home base.

    It will be interesting to see the outcome of this.


    capetonianm
    Participant

    My registered letter to the above address came back ‘gone away’.
    By coincidence, I will be walking past that building within the next day or so, and I intend to go in and see if they do have a presence there, and if they do I will be taking a photograph which I will use as further evidence in court.

    In the meantime, from Companies House, I have found this, which is their official address for service in the UK :
    Mr Christian Rodarius
    Deutsche Lufthansa Aktiengesellschaft
    Heathrow Boulevard 2, 284 Bath Road, West Drayton, Sipson, UB7 0DQ


    IanFromHKG
    Participant

    capetonianm, why did you use that particular address?

    Be wary of too much research, if the rule you are relying on for effective service relates to the “last known address”, you rather spoil it for yourself if you find out another one, so that the one you use isn’t the “last known” (if you see what I mean)


    LuganoPirate
    Participant

    The address for Finnair given by FDOS is one of those Regus type virtual offices. Not that that changes anything as it is the legal registered office but from experience I’ve seen these places can be very tardy in forwarding mail, so even if you get judgment in your favour Finnair may not even know about it.

    However, that does not stop you enforcing the judgement with a bailiff who can seize their assets. What a great episode for “Can’t pay, we’ll take it away” as they attempt to seize a fully loaded aircraft at Heathrow!


    capetonianm
    Participant

    IanFromHKG :

    I found the first address on a forum and used that one for service of the Letter Before Action. Given that the letter came back and the address is possibly invalid, I felt that serving the MCOL summons to that address would fail, which is why I found the other one. I now have to issue a second LBA and wait another two weeks before issuing the summons.

    Meantime I have sent them a rather acidic email, given that they confirmed to me by phone that the Newall Road address was correct. I suspect they are doing everything they can to make it as difficult as possible for me to issue the summons. Whereas it might put some people off, it makes me more determined to push ahead.


    MartynSinclair
    Participant

    Does the LBA have to be sent/served to the legal department or could it be handed to any employee or airport manager.. with a request for it to be delivered. Would the LBA considered as served if a receipt from a firms employee can be produced..


    rferguson
    Participant

    Hey folks,

    I’m proceeding with my claim albeit at the moment via the CAA. I know they are toothless in effect to force Finnair to pay compensation but i’m hopeful that if at least it finds in my favour it will help with any MCOL case.

    It’s ironic how sometimes having ‘laws’ regarding compensation can actually seem to make things more difficult. Twice in the last few months i’ve encountered massive delays whilst flying domestically in the USA (once due to a crew going out of hours, the other a tech issue) and with no legislation requiring them to offer anything both times AA and DL offered all the immediate perks that they would be required to in the EU (food, accom etc) and both ALSO offered without even asking for it a decent amount of compensation (I took miles from AA (42.5k) and flight credits from DL $375).

    Yet here we are in a country where it has been legislated for airlines to cough up yet it is so much harder to get them to do so.


    capetonianm
    Participant

    Martyn :

    “Does the LBA have to be sent/served to the legal department or could it be handed to any employee or airport manager.. with a request for it to be delivered. Would the LBA considered as served if a receipt from a firms employee can be produced.”

    I have read that it may be delivered to any known place of business or handed to employee on duty at his or her workplace. The problem there is that you may then have no proof of service, and the LBA is obligatory before taking action so you might need proof that it was sent. In theory you could hand it to a check-in agent (provided that they were an employee of, and not a contractor for, the airline.)

    Citizens’ advice bureau says :
    “Keep a copy of your letter and get a proof of posting certificate free from the post office, in case the court asks for proof that you sent the letter.
    The trader should acknowledge receipt of your letter within 14 days …………”


    MartynSinclair
    Participant

    You would have proof of service if the receiving employee signed a receipt confirming acceptance of the LBA..

    I would presume the problem would be getting an employee to sign a copy of the letter “received” and attach their name to it..


    FDOS_UK
    Participant

    The address for Finnair given by FDOS is one of those Regus type virtual offices. Not that that changes anything as it is the legal registered office but from experience I’ve seen these places can be very tardy in forwarding mail, so even if you get judgment in your favour Finnair may not even know about it.

    However, that does not stop you enforcing the judgement with a bailiff who can seize their assets. What a great episode for “Can’t pay, we’ll take it away” as they attempt to seize a fully loaded aircraft at Heathrow!

    Nice thought, but they wouldn’t get airside 🙂 I was at Heathrow the day Swissair had an A330 blocked with ground equipment, for not settling landing fees – they went bust shortly afterwards., unfortunately.

    BTW, to use the HCEO’s in ‘Can’t Pay’, the debt must be £600 or more


    FDOS_UK
    Participant

    Martyn :

    “Does the LBA have to be sent/served to the legal department or could it be handed to any employee or airport manager.. with a request for it to be delivered. Would the LBA considered as served if a receipt from a firms employee can be produced.”

    I have read that it may be delivered to any known place of business or handed to employee on duty at his or her workplace. The problem there is that you may then have no proof of service, and the LBA is obligatory before taking action so you might need proof that it was sent. In theory you could hand it to a check-in agent (provided that they were an employee of, and not a contractor for, the airline.)

    Citizens’ advice bureau says :
    “Keep a copy of your letter and get a proof of posting certificate free from the post office, in case the court asks for proof that you sent the letter.
    The trader should acknowledge receipt of your letter within 14 days …………”

    I’d send it ‘signed for’ to the registered office address you obtained from Companies House. The same thing happened to me, a couple of months ago, with a non-airline case – they’ve now been served. Two extra weeks is nothing in the bigger scheme of things.

    Revenge is a dish best served cold.


    capetonianm
    Participant

    I issued a claim through MCOL and Lufthansa’s lawyers have contacted me today acknowledging and indicating that they intend to defend it.

    That’s fine, I look forward to seeing them in court, although I suspect that they may attempt telephonic mediation before court. I am happy with either approach.


    rferguson
    Participant

    Hi folks, just thought i’d do a little update on this.

    At the time of my last post in August 2017 I wrote that I was lodging a complaint via the CAA in the hope that they would agree with me and strengthen my hand a little in any small claims action against Finnair.

    I was disappointed when in fact the CAA sided with Finnair and said that they were right in claiming extraordinary circumstances.

    I disagreed still. My main beef was that the ATC delay was actually a ‘knock on’ from the previous day and that in that time Finnair should have contacted me to advise me and allow me to make other plans as the EU 261 obligations do not only talk about compensation but also airlines doing all possible to minimise disruption which I claimed Finnair had not.

    The CAA verdict knocked my confidence in pursuing a Small Claim case myself (I didn’t like the idea of being lumbered with costs if I lost which it looked like I would) so I engaged one of the no win-no fee solicitors.

    It was no longer about the money and I had absolutely no problem with losing a percentage to the legal team in the case of winning. In fact, even if my portion had been £5 I would have pursued it as it had become about principle for me and I was really disgusted by Finnairs handling of it.

    The no-win no-fee solicitors first send another letter to the airline concerned claiming compensation. As expected, Finnair did not reply. At this stage the solictors then have a more in-depth look at the case and decide whether they will pursue it through court or not (I guess they want to be working on good odds as I imagine they don’t want to be lumbered with costs either). I was delighted when the solicitors contacted me and said that they believed my case was strong and that day they would issue court papers against Finnair. I was advised the process could now take anything from a few days to years to resolve. Finnair could immediately admit liability (unlikely) or defend their claim in court (they would have 2-6wks to either admit liability or submit a formal written defence).

    At exactly two days before the six week deadline they agreed to settle the claim for the full amount.

    Very happy.


    FDOS_UK
    Participant

    Well done, good for you in standing up to the corporation.

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