[Biztraveller74]

Simon S1- I fully agree. It is bonkers but until there is pressure to stop it, it will continue.
I think there might be some understanding between airlines not to change this practise, which is un- competitive. It applies to all airlines except low cost

[FormerlyDoS]

Simon

Let’s say you and I start an airline.

We enrol lots of folks in our FFP programme and then they want to use their free flights; but we don’t like that, because it doesn’t give us an income stream.

So we invent a surcharge, let’s say a ‘tyre surcharge’, because the cost of rubber is volatile.

Because our tyre surcharge is an extra, we can still charge for it when we give away those free flights.

Over the years, we gradually increase our surcharge, until it is higher than the base fare.

This is a very nice revenue for us. Then we restrict the number of tickets available for free flights and we release some ‘cash and points’ flights from higher fare buckets, meaning that our passengers burn their miles (reducing our balance sheet liabilities) and pay a cash component that is sometimes as high or higher than a cash only ticket from a lower fare bucket and they pay the tyre surcharge, too.

Then we run an ad campaign showing that the bottle of water we provide is free, but beastly easyJet charge for theirs.

Capisce?

[Biztraveller74]

FormelyDoS- I think SimonS1 and you are on the same page!
We all are utterly schocked by these practises, although I would not focus just on BA, because they are all the same I think. And this is my real problem, there is an obvious agreement by airlines to carry on these uncompetitive practises.
If giving miles away is the issue, give less…

[MartynSinclair]

Why is there so much difference in the charges for euro avios to long haul avios. I think this must have been covered elsewhere, but I was shocked to see the cost of the add ons for a long haul avios reward flight.

One rule for one, another rule for another…..

I was going to say that perhaps there is a tax on using airspace – but then I reaslised, there is …………….!

[FormerlyDoS]

Rachid

Who mentioned BA?

They do not have a tyre surcharge.

I tend to agree with you, but you will find that fuel surcharges do vary considerably between airlines, look for example at AA vs BA.

Also EK have announced that one will be able to burn miles on U2 with no cash component required – I’m sure it’s costed in, but I prefer this approach.

[RoadKing]

Speaking of surcharges.
Where is EU when they can actually prove their value. They decide on the curving of cucumbers, they enforce standard sizes of condoms, dictate a ban on snuff and such.
Yes they did actually act on the rip of mobile telephone companies did.
How about a ban on surcharges that are unreasonable?
I mean, if I were running a transport company, I would calculate a price based on a budget and charge based on that.
Right, oilprices vary, but funny enough, the local bus service does not operate with a surcharge for that.
Sure, we have to pay fees to the government, but does it mean it has to be a surcharge? There are toll roads, but does the local bus service have a surcharge for that?
Indeed there is a fee for the credit card transaction, but if I buy a new refrigerator, the local store does not charge a surcharge for that.

How come authorities, whether they are national or European accept this crap?

[Biztraveller74]

Roadking,
Boris Johnson today challenged the relevance to EU for the UK…and your point is right, they do not help on Airlines ripp off.
Airlines lobby in Brussels too strong?

[MartynSinclair]

Feel like Ive just won the airmiles – avios lottery

LHR-ZUR-HKG on Swiss in F

HKG-BKK on Cathay in Business

BKK-LHR on BA in F

dates were all spot on.

BA / Cathay were all done on line and Swiss was completed via phone to the USA Miles and More call centre (far cheaper than the high call charges to German centre.

Departure in 10 days time.

[Biztraveller74]

MartynSinclair,
How much tax and surcharge did you pay, if you don’t mind me asking?

[IanFromHKG]

I am surprised no-one has yet mentioned that outright redemptions are rarely the best value. We use our miles exclusively for upgrades, where the bang for your buck is much greater.

We use the Asia Miles scheme run by CX, which has numerous partners all around Asia including any number of hotels, credit card companies, restaurants, and so forth. We earn far more miles from these partners than we do from flying. Accumulating- easy. Upgrade redemptions – well, not so easy, and we are heavily reliant on my top-tier status with CX to get the seats we want (although we usually do get them – eventually). It does mean being very organised (which the memsahib takes care of!) but it can be done.

[Biztraveller74]

Ian_from_HKG, thanks.
Upgrades are better value than redemptions, however, it requires to have booked on a certain class, which tends to be the most expensive of any of the class( eco, premium eco or Business).
Hence, you pay more upfront to pay less miles…Not sure thi is great, unless if course your company pays!

[IanFromHKG]

It isn’t always the most expensive class, Rachid. Several fare classes are eligible for upgrades (at least on CX). The introduction of Premium Economy on CX does mean that on the flights which have that class one has to buy a PE ticket (but for now only economy on flights which don’t), but it certainly isn’t the case that one has to pay full fare on the underlying ticket

[VintageKrug]

As Martyn illustrates with some application one can often surprise even the most cynical with the value possible using avois and other schemes.

Have you worked out the cost of those flights had you paid for them?

Buying premium economy is superb value. On BA all world traveller plus fares are eligible for upgrading with avois, where availability exists.

[MartynSinclair]

Taxes.

LHR-ZUR-BKK – will add when I can find (105,000 points First)

HKG-BKK = Euros 32 (15,000 avios business)

BKK – LHR = Euros 844.32. (45,000 avios First) Because of my current need for European sectors, I thought using 45,000 avios and increased fees instead of 90,000 avios and around Euros 200, worthwhile. Remember the BA ticket is Asia to UK.

How do I value this ticket? Given the added benefit of being able to cancel and change all sectors – and my travel dates are (VK, turn away and dont smirk) perfect, my first choice, I would value this in the region of £5 – 7,000!

The only unsure part of the schedule is whether I get New First on the Swiss A340-300 (ZUR-HKG) as I think, it is going to be the old product. I have asked Herr Proffessor Lugano Pirate, but if anyone else knows, please let me know.

Whether I get NF on BA10, I am not too bothered.

The other admission here, is that the BA website worked, especially where avios availabilty was concerned. i saw the flight, took the “one way” option and it worked.

Miles and More didnt show available on line & only got the seat by phoning the USA call centre, who were very very helpful in finding availability.

[MartinJ]

Based on my travel and redemption patterns (mostly Continental Europe to Asia in business) and on my membership of BAEC, M&M and FB I can say that
* M&M easily beats the other two in terms of availability. Most importantly, availability seems to be consistent – whether I book 330 days, a month or three days in advance. The downside is that there is no miles&cash. And earnings have been cut into half in some fare classes. The cheapest business class now earns a measly 100% when it used to be 200%. And the Silver and Gold bonus is a lousy 25%.
* With Flying Blue I found it reasonably easy to get flights and dates I want but only if I book well in advance. The downside here is earning (25% in cheap economy, need I say more?)
* BAEC is by far the most difficult to redeem. I am now sitting on 150.000 Avios which I have tried to redeem on six occasions throughout the past year – not a chance in Hell. I tried New York in November, Bangkok in June, Hong Kong in August, Chicago in May, Johannesburg in October and Delhi in November. Nothing. Nada. Nichts. My flexibility was +/- one week and it was just me, not a party. I was sometimes offered connections on OW but I cannot see the point of effectively paying for two awards (say, LON-AMM and AMM-BKK) when what I want really is just the one flight (LON-BKK). As much as I like BAEC for earning and the perks, I found long-haul business availability nonexistent and I’ve now had to resort to using my Avios for European flights. What is the point of a FFP that offers only those seats that would otherwise go empty? Does BAEC expect me to plan my holidays around their seat availability?

[Author]

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