[LuganoPirate]

CharlesP. How that made me laugh. I can almost feel the embarrassment of the two of them!

[Charles-P]

TiredOldHack – the “perv checks” as you call are now a major hindrance to encouraging adults to work on a volunteer basis with children in the UK. My sister instructs at her local swimming club and has said that the work involved in trying to get a man (typically the father of one of the children) approved to help is close to impossible in the present climate. Indeed the last time they tried the man in question was so upset by the questions he was asked and the assumptions that were made about his motivations for volunteering that he withdrew and no longer even attends to watch his daughter swim.

[LuganoPirate]

The reach of the UK H&S and CPP even extends beyond our borders. The Anglican Church in Switzerland (and elsewhere for that) has to follow the rules laid down by the Diocese of Gibraltar in these matters, even though many of the provisions do not comply with Swiss law. The application for vetting is about 6 pages long, rules amount to 15 A4 pages and children’s consent form I think was 3 pages. I can’t remember all the rules etc but some/many were just so ridiculous and over the top.

The one I do remember though, is when away on a day trip, if in the opinion of the Sunday School teacher the child needs some medical intervention, the teacher can give all consents without reference to the parent. That went too far and definitely contravened Swiss law and would have made the teacher / church liable if something went wrong.

I’m also a Governor of an English Independent school and know first hand the rules, regulations and pressures put on staff and the rules often trump common sense and can, in some circumstances I believe, put the children into danger.

This whole culture of removing every conceived danger, no matter how small or rare, I think makes it less safe for kids who grow up in a culture whereby risk is removed for them. When an adult they are not equipped to cope with life’s mishaps and dangers which we all know lurk at almost very path, especially when travelling.

[BigDog.]

Off thread – LP, the most gob smacking stupidity of H&S recently was a UK humanitarian air drop in northern Iraq being cancelled as it could cause injuries to someone on the ground.

[TiredOldHack]

I seem to recall, some time in the 1970s or 1980s, the German Green Party lobbying, in view of the damage being caused to the countryside by NATO tanks on exercise, that the German Army develop an environmentally friendly tank.

The reply was along the lines of: “A tank is supposed to be the most environmentally unfriendly vehicle that Man can devise, you idiots.”

[Charles-P]

BigDog.- the principle British Army base in Afghanistan (Camp Bastion) had a sign near one of the exists it read’

“Enemy combatants beyond this point !”

“Beware tripping hazard”

In addition in 2009 BAE Systems was forced by law to ensure all its spent cartridges are biodegradable.

[SimonS1]

David – indeed the people giving me the look were entitled to be sitting. Unfortunately though we were several stops nearer London and there were no seats left so they were unable to do that. However I certainly didn’t feel it a requirement to immediately jump up. They were able bodied people and as capable of standing as me and the lad were. A totally different situation if someone had a disability when we would stand without hesitation.

As far as the kids are concerned I think it’s highly probable that getting them sat down where possible would be part of the duty of care. If the train braked sharply and a kid went flying I’m quite sure that questions would be asked. Things like that can easily end up in litigation hence the carers were minimising risks.

You may not agree with it but to label it as ill mannered stupidity is IMHO somewhat judgemental. As you say any tube journey can involve standing….it would appear that is what you ended up doing.

[canucklad]

So, here’s another take on politeness and respect for your fellow traveller, and one I’ve mentioned on here before.

Having paid £237 for a ticket, you board an overcrowded East Coast train at York with a reserved seat that entitles you a degree of comfort up to the Waverly. You get to your seat to find an old lady or possibly pregnant woman encamped, and has been sitting in your seat since Kings Cross !!

What would you do ?

[TiredOldHack]

Really frail old lady or seriously pregnant, I’d probably offer to share the seat. I wouldn’t give it up entirely.

Pasty-faced looking fatso would get a polite request to move, and then if they refused, the sharper edge of my tongue.

That brings me on to another noticeable trend: why are so many people wheezing and having difficulty moving? Answer: because they’re too bloody fat. And instead of trying to lose some weight, they go and buy electric buggies so they locomote and exercise even less.

Now, I am politely described as ‘portly’, but even I manage to move myself on my own two feet from time to time.

[DNAdams]

If someone was occupying a seat that I had a reservation for I would always ask them to move elderly, pregnant, fat or otherwise. Trains usually have priority seats for disabled people which cannot be reserved for this purpose.

Most European countries are very strict about this especially Spain and France where you will always be asked to move if you are the wrong seat. No English politeness there.

[MrMichael]

Tiredoldhack, with you there 100%.

Reminds a few years ago going to a chippie to treat the kids. In front of me was a rather portly 30ish lady, what Americans might call trailer trash. She proceeded to order a large fish and chips with two sausage in batter, having ordered that she proclaimed she was rather hungry so make it four sausages! She then ordered a coke…..”better make that a diet coke” she mumbled at which point I burst out laughing and couldn’t even stop during the tirade of abuse she gave me and the then laughing chief chip fryer.

[LuganoPirate]

DNAdams. Ditto Switzerland, Germany and Holland. All three countries have seats reserve for the infirm. Then again, for a very small fee you can reserve a seat on any train in either 1st or 2nd class and this is what many people do, no matter their age or state of mobility.

[IanFromHKG]

All this stuff about H&S signs reminds me of Jeremy Clarkson, who has a wonderful way of pointing out the idiocy of these things:

“On a visit to RAF Henlow last week, I was rather surprised to see that someone from health and safety had pinned a poster to the notice board, warning the fighter pilots that alcohol will make them aggressive and violent. Oh no, that’s the last thing we want – aggressive and violent fighter pilots”

[SimonS1]

@Canucklad – simple, I would ask them to shift and/or call the train manager. Being pregnant or elderly does not prevent you from booking a seat and it doesn’t entitle you to sit in a seat that someone else has booked and paid for.

[1nfrequent]

CharlesP – having been on the receiving end of misidentified generosity of the kind shown by your lad, I have to say that my sympathy is with the woman. 🙂

In my case a businessman stood up and offered me his seat with the words: “Won’t be long till the birth now!”

To which I replied: “I’m not pregnant but I’m clearly too fat to stand so will take the seat anyway. Thanks.”

It did lead to me losing 2 stone in weight though. So. There was that.

I do actually offer my seat to those in need on the Tube FWIW.

1F

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