[JonathanCohen09]

Hello Everyone,

Geohoveuk, I am afraid I just do not undestand the point that you are trying to make! Are you really suggesting that in the current climate that BA management should do nothing to try and cut their very high cost base but that if they do then the CC should not share part of the burden.

With my recruitment and HR background one of the things that I am doing at the moment is, on a voluntary basis, is working with Volunteer Centres to run workshops to help the long term unemployed back to work. among my clients their are many ex-cabin crew who have lost their jobs. They would be overjoyed to have the opportunity to go back to an airline like BA on the new terms being offered and some of them used to work for BA.

I agree that a job is not just about being paid and that job satisfaction is important but I agree totally with Nigel, if staff really are that disaffected then they should leave and see what life is like being unemployed at the moment. I can assure you that no matter how bad they think things are and how unfairly they believe they are being treated, they will find it a lot harder without their salary coming in.

BA management are not blmeless in this dispute but the union are doing their members no favours and may ultimately have to explain to them why so many of them end up on the dole if they continue to try and drive the airline into the ground.

Now that my rant is over for this evening, I am really hoping that the volcano behves iteself and that I can get to my cousins Barmitzvah in Israel this weekend.

Safe travels everyone,

Jonathan

[MartynSinclair]

Matzeltov Jonathon. I hope you make it.

One of my friends who commutes each week to Tel Aviv – London, is considering going to catch the El Al flight from Madrid to Tel Aviv tomorrow. Just a thought.

And BA strikers thought they had problems!!!!

[JonathanCohen09]

Hi Martyn,

thanks for your kind words. I am looking at Madrid or possibly Rome Tel aviv if all else fails.

I will let you know how I get on.

Cheers,

Jonathan

[VintageKrug]

1. Offering a potential pay cut “for some while” would not solve the fundamental misalignment of the BA crew cost base.

2. Offering a temporary pay cut has not delivered any savings to the company. Other parts of BA’s workforce have delivered on cost savings, crew has not delivered on any cost savings which is why (after ONE YEAR of opportunity to negotiate) some changes – reductions in crew numbers – were imposed.

3. Comparing the role of a CEO to that of a cabin crewmember is flawed; no crew works 6 or 7 days a week or has the sort of responsibility of a CEO. Daft to make salary jibes on that front.

4. As we have all found when flying with other carriers (and yes I am also a Star Alliance Gold card holder, and spent the majority of last year’s jaunts on Star Alliance flights in premium cabins) the amount paid to crew bears no relation to the quality or dedication of good crewmembers. BA’s Union is kidding itself if they think this is the case.

WW is not trying to break the union – BA needs a single union with which to negotiate efficiently. Even Unite is distancing itself from the actions of the LA-resident BASSA Chairwoman.

Anyway, this is all moot as there will not likely be any discussion from Unite/BASSA until after the UK General Election on May 6, more evidence of the politiocal motivation for this strike rather than any focus on delivering a good deal for cabin crew.

As a consequence of BASSA intransigence and refusal to negotiate, Cabin Crew WILL receive a far worse deal than would have been the case had their Union negotiated properly and agreed the original offer, table 18 months ago.

It is very sad that many people still demonise WW while not understanding BASSA’s role in all this.

[HiFlyer]

This morning I stumbled across this forum and your comments.

I am furious with BA and have been so for a couple of weeks now. Let me tell you why.

1. I was one of the fortunate passengers to be on one of the first Friday flight from New York to Glasgow during the eruption fiasco of late.

2. Unfortunately, I was sat in a First cabin with 8 or so BA managers who had somehow managed to take the place of 200 or more stranded passengers (some of whom were my colleagues all the while being accommodated in Hotels at BA expense). They were not discreet and initially laughed and joked aloud, my suspicions of their passenger status was later confirmed.

3. Furthermore, there were 50 odd empty seats in Club and Economy combined which could easily have been filled by desperate passengers wishing to return to the UK.

4. I thought British Airways were currently concerned about costs. Surely having staff parade around in paying passenger entitlements is not appropriate!

I have since taken up my grievances with Willie Walsh, but my concerns have not been acknowledged.

[RedFlyer]

HiFlyer – I can understand why you would have taken offence at this seemingly irrational response to a crisis situation but all is probably not as it seems.

Firstly the reason why your flight operated with numerous empty seats will have been because of the need for BA to start operating flights at extremely short notice in relation to when they received clearance to operate.

It will have been imperative to get airplanes flying and getting the schedule moving again asap coupled with the revised slots they would have been given. Logistically it would have been impossible for BA (Probably local US staff) to contact enough passengers, including allowing time for them to organise themselves and get to the airport, to fill the first flights in the timeframe available.

Secondly the BA staff in the First cabin were probably displaced Flight deck crew who are contractually entitled to confirmed seats in First class and again needed desperately by BA back at home base to enable them to start flying planes again asap.

Even if they weren’t tech crew they would have only got seats in First class on a standby basis because seats available per my remarks above. Again it makes sense for BA to get staff back to work asap if seats are available (probably had been helping out at JFK operations whilst stuck there anyway).

Whilst I can understand your initial reaction I think it’s a little unfair to make assumptions about the character of BA staff when the vast majority will have been working their a***s off trying to mitigate the situation for their customers in an unprecedented crisis of no making of their own.

In other words “Cut them a little slack”.

[HiFlyer]

RedFlyer, to set you straight, these staff members in First were apparently from IT and they certainly weren’t working their a***s off mitigating any situation whilst enjoying the first class service and Bordeaux.

What angers me the most, is that my colleagues (intending to travel with me) and countless others in the same Hotel as which I was staying were informed the flight was full and they would be rebooked as per flight operation. Quite inappropriately and unnecessarily, it was the British Airways IT managers who were taking precedence over other desperate passengers, and for what, to be home for the weekend!

On top of this, us first class passengers were simply bundled into busses with all other passengers on board and made to feel like cattle. I would have thought some more appropriate and comfortable separate transport could have been laid on considering the fares charged. Needless to say, the managers were not with us.

BA, although I am grateful for having got me home, seems never to truly put the passengers interests at heart. Did I mention my Video Monitor did not work? Oh, and that I found the crew very pleasant indeed. Somehow, I think they are all BA really has going for it. It would be a shame for Willie Walsh if he cuts his nose off to spite his face.

[MartynSinclair]

RED FLYER – it concerns me greatly to read comments such as flight deck crew are “contracturally entitled to confirmed First class seats” – you left out two words …..and club…. flight deck are permitted to refuse travel in a class below club “whilst on duty”. That does not mean that they have to refuse. I sympathise with HiFlyers comments becasue I still have collegues stuck in S Africa, and parts if USA. Stuck pax should be prioritized over staff.

Please do not excuse the antics of BA staff with half truths.

[RedFlyer]

Ok, so in the biggest operational disruption in the history of BA (and most other airlines) they have decided to purposefully deny carriage to their highest value customers to ensure some non essential IT staff can get home for the weekend.

MartynSinclair – I guess that’s why you still have colleages stuck overseas. BA probably want to ensure their staff get a well deserved break so are blocking all spare seats.

HiFlyer – I would be interested to know why you were chosen as the lucky customer to get a seat on the flight over your colleagues and they were told the flight was full. Were you the first to be contacted? Did you speak with your colleauges after you had been confirmed on the flight?

Also I wasn’t referring to the BA staff on your flight when highlighting the efforts put in but in general (once on a flight you are a passenger after all).

In relation to the bus transport. I would assume (and I’m sure MartynSinclair will put me right on this) that it was a logistical issue again i.e. trying to organise transport in a very short timeframe.

At the end of the day if it is your judgement that BA did not provide an adeqaute response to this crisis then anything they provide to you in terms of justification of their actions will be irrelevant as your point of view will remain the same.

[MartynSinclair]

Hey Red Flyer

Do i sense you are swinging both ways in this debate???

Cant quite work out which side of the fence you are sitting

…and yes i do believe that revenue pax should get preference over BA staff and further that BA staff should only use F on an approval basis. As you well know, non approved upgrades can result, quite rightly, in a criminal charge of theft.

Now, Red Flyer, careful as you land!

Martyn

[RedFlyer]

MartynSinclair – I am merely hoping to offer some possible rationalization for what can appear sometimes to be ludicrous actions by airlines.

I have some previous experience in the airline industry and am basing my assumptions on that knowledge.

I know that most tech crew for positioning purposes are entitled to be booked in Club or First and that makes sense. It’s like any of us booking company travel at whatever entitlement we are allowed.

I don’t know about BA perse but apart from positioning crew most airlines do not allow any other staff other than the Exec Board to confirmed premium seats. Everyone else who is entitled will have an onload category that only kicks in when spare seats are available on the day.

I am not trying to question HiFlyers experience of the situation but when looked at objectively we all have to admit that if BA purposely acted that way it is just incredulous, in fact beyond incredulous and I have to believe and give the benefit of the doubt that there were mitigating circumstances.

Perhaps HiFlyer you can provide details of BA’s response when received?

[VintageKrug]

It may also have been the case that knowing the aircraft was destined for Glasgow and than it may not even have made it that far, a decision was taken not to fill the plane up with passenger who would have ended up far from home, and need to be accommodated.

Another example of how the EU regulations mitigate against what would seem to be the right thing to do (filling the plane up to the gills).

Staff behaving inappropriately is unacceptable, whether or not they are entitled to the cabin in which they are seated (and many are entitled to travel in premium cabins).

[MartynSinclair]

VK – i think you are wrong on the point about airline staff being ‘entitled’ to travel in premium cabins. There are very few staff that are entitled, however, many staff do travel due to favours being called in!

[VintageKrug]

Groundhog Day? I am certain I have seen this post before.

All people reading this know it is Unite/BASSA who will cause this industrial action; the very same Union which refused the request by BA management to assist passengers recently stranded overseas during the Volcanic Ash crisis.

To pretend the Union has any interest whatsoever in passengers being inconvenienced is, frankly, nuts.

Please remember, these passengers are also the Cabin Crew’s passengers, and the people who pay their wages and pension contributions.

There will be a vote on Friday of Union members the day after the General Election (funny that, given that Unite is the Labour Party’s largest donor, and Gordon’s best buddy Charlie Whelan works for them).

However, appetite for a strike is likely to be diminished after striking crew have lost out on pay during the first strike, and also during the ash situation.

BA is ensuring ALL staff (not just the diminishing band of BASSA affiliated crew) get the opportunity to have their voice heard.

I would suggest third week in May or second week in June as the likely strike periods; either way any strike action is likely to have even less effect than was the case last time round as additional volunteer crew have been trained in the interim, including 747 crews, and catering provision should be significantly improved.

Please do keep giving us your perspective geo, it is interesting to hear your point of view even if not everyone agrees with it.

[Delsurrey]

Full details of the BA offer to the Staff is available at http://www.uniteba.com even to the public!

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