[canucklad]

Got to hand it to the union though…..
If you’re going to make an Impact, this is the time to do it!!

Suspect that Mr Cruz Control and Belligerent Willie will use this to their own perceived benefit. Bassa steal’s Christmas and Cabin Crew hold families to ransom etc…..

When the reality is, BA are ensuring that Mixed fleet have a miserly festive period…Booh on BA.

And on a serious note, because it’s BA, most people will not realise that the hat brigade earn a tippence of a wage. And are more likely to believe the right wing press and BA management’s propaganda than the unions.

[MarcusGB]

I heard Strikes Confirmed, but more shocking, that such an Airline, would pay people to amounts that end up being below the minimum wage! These for those employed on the new Contract for some 5 years +.

I think this is demeaning for the staff, and impossible income to live on, and Ba are a disgrace for permitting this, whilst cutting back on what you get as passengers. The image of BA has seriously changed.
And we criticise Companies such as Sports Direct, B & Q, when BA does this.

I am pleased i do not fly them, treating staff in such a way, is unethical, and a National Airline of disgrace.

[AnthonyDunn]

John Harper #780973

You and I agree on far more than you might think – or I ever flag up. Stranger things have been known to happen! Regards.

[JohnHarper]

The way the Telegraph have reported this won’t do BA any good:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/12/14/british-airways-cabin-crew-vote-strike-latest-uk-industrial/

[BugAdvisor]

Considering how badly BA treat their customers, including those with tier status, I dread to think how they treat their crew. But it’s a shame they decide to strike at Christmas time as that has an impact on families travelling for holiday in economy rather than business flyers.
BA would suffer more if business passengers were impacted.
How about European Commission Regulation 261/2004 – does that apply where the airline is unable to fly as a result of their crew being on strike? That would put some pressure on as BA would have to compensate all those economy passengers that paid less than the compensation they receive.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ John Harper #780995

Do you recall when Channel 4 (I think it was) did a “fly on the cabin wall” investigation into training, working practices and flying hours at Ryanair when it was revealed that O’Blarney had the cabin crew pay for their own training and uniforms? Other than not wishing to give Willy another idea to shave yet more cost off BA inflight services, I really do wonder just how much longer before one television channel or other decides to visit the same upon BA as “Inside the national flag carrier: not quite what you would expect…” If they haven’t thought of it already.

[stevescoots]

I think it is deplorable that people who have such responsibility as safety and security of an Aircraft and its passengers are being paid almost the minimum wage, nothing more than working in MacDonald’s. the discussion about executive earnings etc and the moralities of it are for another time (again) and not relevant in this case.
The remuneration package on offer is standard, in my company we have similar packages. However, and this is the heart of the matter, are those top ups to get near the 25K level remotely achievable? Has the company set the target too high deliberately or are personal targets directly affected by other factors far outside the control of the crew. For example, was the BoB bonus calculation used in the contracts based on a 70% capacity of aircraft sale, yet the it’s impossible to achieve because the only put enough product on board to sell 30%. Was the fly time bonus based on flying 5 days but due to rostering they can only achieve 3 days per week. Was the overnight stop bonus used in the potential earnings used on a long-haul basis but the majority are only flying short haul, so less overnights. Are they getting paid for reposition flights?

These are the issues at the heart of it. Is the OTE remotely achievable and if not is it the fault of the crew or other areas in the business. I won’t make my judgment on the validity of the strike until that information is known

[canucklad]

Morning stevescoots
You mentioned exec pay might be for another time, with respect I disagree.
If you take the salary pot for the whole company and I’ll include guaranteed bonuses into the same pot and then use the analogy of an old fashioned bottle of gold topped milk as the whole wage cost then you’d be pretty miffed if all you were getting was the skimmed milk at the bottom, whilst a few employees at the top where scrapping of the cream (bonuses) and then helping themselves to the richer milk at the neck and then what’s left is distributed amongst the workers.

And at the moment the mixed fleet crew (responsible for our safety) are at the bottom of that bottle, so no wonder they feel sour.

And I’ll pose this question,, when the banking crisis occurred doesn’t it seem odd that the 100 most powerful people in this country, co-incidentally enriched their coffers between by the same amount as our banks bail out cost!!

And the liberal press and the establishment elite seem to be surprised that Brexit and Trump have occurred!!

Finally, back to BA, and I notice that the BA propaganda machine has gone into overdrive.

“BA said it had made an offer that would lead to basic pay and hourly duty rates increasing by a minimum of 7 per cent.
A spokesman said: ‘We are extremely disappointed that the union is creating uncertainty for our customers.’
And so it begins………

[rferguson]

It’s not just all about the money. I know for employees financial remuneration is one of the biggest drivers. And I can say, thankfully, being on a ‘legacy contract’ BA is a dream company to work for as cabin crew in that respect. Hence why on legacy fleet the turnover is under 2%.

But there is something about the way you are treated in BA that is really hard to describe. And perhaps as I have been there for so long I am ‘blinkered’ and maybe it’s just a reality of working for large corporation these days. I don’t know. On legacy fleets our terms and conditions are generally very good – thanks to union agreements which BA have signed on the dotted line so have to honour. But you go the extra mile, do a great job day in day out and the recognition you get is zero. And i’m not talking financial. Our managers generally view us with utter contempt. A massive inconvenience to the company that they just want rid of. A birthday card, christmas card….forget it. The general consensus is that the only time you will hear from a manager is when you have done something wrong – lateness, attendance etc.

For years we’ve been putting up with subpar product and numerous cut backs which has left us generally in the firing line of customers whilst our leaders congratulate themselves with more and more bonuses and profits grow and still they crow about some ‘best airline’ award they have won. I once read on a forum where a very long serving stewardess wrote that she didn’t feel like cabin crew she felt like a ‘professional apologiser’. The managers reply was ‘well that’s your job’. And that is the mentality of some.

However, the money and the good terms and conditions keeps me positive minded and keeps me ticking over and giving the customers the best service I can.

But on MF – they don’t even have the money or the agreements to motivate them, yet still have to also put up with the general ‘BA Way’.

A lot of what they are asking for is not just a more liveable wage – they want some form of agreements that gives them better roster stability and more control over planning their free time. The problem is, BA doesn’t want to give into this either. They want total control over the Mixed Fleet crew and to chop and change their duties and days off at a whim. From MF crew I know this causes almost as much angst as the money situation. Many feel they generally sell their soul to the airline.

At the end of the day, most of the MF crew that are fighting the hardest for changes are the ones that BA do not want to appease. The days of a ‘career flight attendant’ are over. BA (well I guess airlines in general) do not want crew (or staff) that are staying for years, getting older and wanting more money to get a mortgage, taking time off for maternity leave, sickness in middle age, rearranging rosters to accommodate child care, paying into pensions etc etc. They want young crew that will come, be happy to work for little in exchange for seeing the world, get fed up, and leave within two years (which is apparently the ‘sweet spot’ where a MF crew member has essentially paid for themselves in terms of recruitment/training/uniform etc etc). And that’s precisely what is happening. Crew that joined Mixed Fleet five or so years ago are now moving to a point where it is not seen as a ‘fun jolly’ and they want to get serious. They want to move out of home, or out of their six-person flatshare in Hounslow and their current pay just does not allow this.

I think the biggest positive impact the ‘yes’ vote will give is the media coverage and I think a lot of Joe Public will relate to it and be able to empathise.

In terms of a strike – won’t happen IMHO. I forsee BA offering some ‘one off’ token gesture – some cold hard cash that is a pittance to them but will be grabbed by both hands by young skint guys and girls – and that will be that.

I don’t deny the need to stay competitive and the need to counter attacks on market share, revenue and yield from the LOCO’s and middle eastern airlines. And I am proud that BA at least seem to have a grasp on making money (hopefully it will keep me in a job for some years to come). But you have to stop and wonder ‘when is enough enough before it’s shared around a little’.

**My personal opinions only**

[goldaviator]

Thanks rferguson, as usual, a very well worded post that gives a good perspective of life inside BA.

[MrMichael]

BA as a business has my vote in paying what the market dictates and operating the “want to keep them 2 years and let them move on” model too if that is what it thinks is best for its business. The business I work in does similar. However, it still should treat the staff with respect and compassion while they are out there representing the brand. It should pay what it says it will pay without shenanigans around unachievable bonuses and the like. Also importantly it should have clear career progression so that those that do want to make a go of it can do so with a very clear idea of where and how it might take them. For many businesses employing young enthusiastic people on poor pay (particularly in the leisure/travel trades) is a win win for all. But it must be honest and clear.

From what I have read on this forum and other places these mixed fleet crew are treated pretty appallingly and I find (unusually for me) to be in support of their strike action. However I have also read that only 15% of mixed fleet staff are union members, and thus the effectiveness of the strike may not be felt too greatly. It saddens me to say that at some point staff (of any organisation) have to think about if they are in the right organisation for them. Because if mixed feet crew are as easy to recruit as has been reported then striking will achieve absolutely nothing…..they will just be replaced, with BA taking the view they can stay on strike until the cows come home.

[canucklad]

Great post rferguson
And it links nicely to the good points made by stevescoots.

A great employer should have the following values threaded throughout their business.

1) Recognizing the old adage, “work to live, not live to work”
2) Acknowledge that everyone is as valuable as each other if the business is to succeed in its objective.
3) If you’re a customer facing company, those that serve your customers are more important than your actual customers.
4) If you’re in a sales environment, the carrot has to be eatable
5) A wage bill should be seen as an investment in the future rather than a cost to suffer today.

And if as a corporation you publish your core values, then you’d better walk the walk rather than talk the talk.

After reading rfergusons insightful comments I really fear for a company whose employee, dedicated and keen to serve as rferguson is, has those views of his employer.
I can’t speak for rferguson but I’d rather there was passion and pride of the family that he’s part of when he’s away from his own family.

[JohnHarper]

MrMichael, do you really want to fly on an aircraft where your life may depend on crew who have less than two years experience, are all young and mostly lacking maturity when your life may depend on them?

I wouldn’t.

AnthonyDunn, I don’t recall the Ryanair programme but as some of the press and I believe the Guardian is at the front of it are increasingly reporting on the state of BA and now the pending strike I think you are right, an undercover camera will be there soon if it’s not there already. That will make the most interesting viewing.

[rferguson]

In terms of recruitment BA works a little in the same way as it does with it customers….it thrives on its reputation of the past.

The fact is you can earn more as a new starter cabin crew at Ryanair or Easyjet than you can at BA. In the words of a famous model, I personally wouldn’t get out of bed for what BA pay their mixed fleet ‘Customer Service Managers’ who not only manage the team onboard on the day but also on the ground: training, recruitment, attendance. And yet….BA still have no problem getting people lining up for the job. Because…it’s BA. For a lot of the young cabin crew it’s about the perceived glamour and excitement of travelling to far flung destinations, working in First Class, actually staying somewhere overnight. Verus flying to europe and back twice a day every day for five days a week flogging crisps and scratch cards (although watch this space). For the CSM’s it’s the same. I can understand it is appealing for someone young to be able to build up a good management skill-set and then take those skills elsewhere and earn more. And that is essentially what BA is becoming – a great big training ground.

I was talking to one of the ‘Turnaround Managers’ the other week. A girl in her 20’s. She has been at BA for about two years and was on the first ever BA direct entry TRM recruitment drive. Her responsibility is IMMENSE. Her signature as well as that of the captains is the ultimate in terms of safely dispatching an aircraft. Ensuring it is properly fuelled, loaded etc. And yet….she is on a dire pittance of a salary. Significantly less than a MF CSM. And here’s the thing – out of the 28 direct entry TRM’s on her initial recruitment course two years ago 9 remain at BA. The rest, fed up with the dreadful pay, took the experience they learned and left. This lady has an application in to Qatar Airways.

Our lower/middle management it’s much the same. Our immediate ground based line managers that manage a ‘team’ each take home significantly less than I do. Thus, the same situation. A constant turnover of managers lured by the chance to get ‘manager at british airways’ on their CV before staying a relatively brief period of time and moving onwards, sidewards or for the lucky few upwards. So again, with poor pay for these managers often comes poor morale. Managers with poor morale trying to motivate cabin crew with poor morale. Guess how that goes?

**My personal opinions only**

[MrMichael]

@JohnHarper. I know where you are going with this, and your right experience cannot be taught. However I don’t think there is any evidence that low paid cabin crew are inherently dangerous. BA, Easyjet, Flybe, Ryanair all have very good safety records, and they all pay their immature unworldly cabin crew a similar dismal pay rate. I have seen lots of posters on here bemoaning mixed fleet for not knowing which knife to serve with the fish course, but I don’t think any have suggested they have seen safety has been compromised. The fact according to the union staff are sleeping in their cars, that could effect safety and I deplore it. BA (any organisation) should pay people a living wage and look after their staff, particularly where safety critical systems depend on it. This is not lets be honest just a BA problem, if BA crew have not got the money to get home for a goods nights sleep then probably that is the same for the other airlines I mentioned. This is whole side effect of the Loco airlines, including BA, needing to cut costs to stay competitive. Just like Dairy farmers, until we the travelling public accept we have to pay more for our travel or milk then those at the bottom of the chain are going to be taken advantage of. Do I like it…no, and that is why I support an increase in Milk prices and the BA cabin crew strike.

[Author]

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