[Cedric_Statherby]

I am not an expert in BA’s labour relations – I am only a regular customer, no more – but I do have some experience in management and employee relations. And I agree with the article in the link from CallMeIshmael – this dispute is now damaging all sides and the latest ballot (which in truth everyone can claim some positives from but nobody actually won) should be seen as a springboard for a solution.

In my experience, in any dispute this long, both sides know (a) what the other side wants and (b) who on the other side wants it. To an outsider, the salient points in this dispute are (a) BASSA hatred for Willie Walsh and (b) BA frustration with a disfunctional union negotiating position – whatever they agree with UNITE, BASSA reject.

For BASSA, the standard solution to this in labour relations theory is to demand Walsh steps aside from the dispute. Very fortuitously, this can actually be done with face saved on all sides because of the creation of IAG and Walsh’s move on to greater things. The standard solution for BA is “divide and conquer” – offer UNITE something extra, to split the union front and isolate the troublemakers in BASSA (something which if done sympathetically UNITE should welcome).

As the BA captain says, time for the adults to take control of the playground.

[Hippocampus]

I do believe BA wants a genuine negotiated settlement to this. This is one reason why it has dragged on for so long. It could have forced an end to this over a year ago.

Cedric is right about the difficulty in negotiating a settlement. There are two power struggles in this dispute. If BA negotiates a deal with Unite, BASSA and CC89 will thrown it back in its face. If BA negotiates directly with BASSA and CC89 they will themselves (as documented in court judgments and their own postings) not agree on a shared position.

Willie Walsh’s move upwards does give BASSA a chance to save face, and they should use it. Unfortunately, I don’t believe the BASSA Branch Secretary has any interest in a settlement to this dispute.

[pussycat]

I agree with you Cedric, perhaps if a carrot can be offered by both sides, they can dispose of the big stick.
But this can only be done if they are talking.
VK is usually the one with all the BA info and he seems very quiet at the moment.
This has now become personal. I have booked a number of trips in the next quarter, and though I was able to avoid BA on several of these trips, I have been forced to book with them on more than one occasion. I cannot afford my tight schedules to be disrupted, and I don’t really want my flights to be operated by anyone other than bona fide cabin crew,

[Cedric_Statherby]

VK is busy on at least 2 other threads at the moment, and I suspect our conversation has escaped him.

(That is, if one believes that he is one person not a committee! Personally, I am happy to believe his assertations to this effect – but there are certainly times when he is awfully busy …)

[CallMeIshmael]

I concur with you Pussycat, Cedric.

Although BA is negotiating from a position of strength, it is likely to be a stalemate for the near term unless the adults take control of the playground.

Unite will find it very difficult to overcome the minutiae of IA law and hold a legitimate ballot, BASSA members become disenchanted with the ineptitude will leave BASSA. However BA will find it impossible to win the hearts and minds of its front line let alone motivate them if there is not a fair negotiated settlement.

It will take Unite at least 4-6 weeks to hold another ballot if it goes that route so I doubt if there would be interruptions until April. That is ample time for the fresh faces to get this sorted…. as long as there is a willingness

[CallMeIshmael]

It is not just Unite/BASSA who have found it increasingly difficult to hold Industrial Action. Recently the RMT, CWU and other unions have found compliance increasingly difficult.

As Lord Justice Judge said in the court of appeal case overturning a previous BA injunction, “it is ironic that legislation designed to ensure that workers retain the right to strike in a fair and democratic ballots was being used by employers to prevent such action”.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/may/27/uk-union-laws-future?INTCMP=SRCH

A professor of work and employment also noted -Labour law loaded in favour of employer

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/jul/08/industrial-action-ballot-bt-cwu?INTCMP=SRCH

Communication Workers Union cancels ballot.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/jul/05/union-cancels-bt-strike-ballot?INTCMP=SRCH

BA repeatedly exploiting legal loopholes will neither endear its workforce to them nor aid in resolving the dispute. I believe it will alienate more BA workers generally who will see their employer reverting to browbeating as opposed to being serious about resolving the underlying issues.

The mid-east carriers are on a fast track huge expansion, BA cannot afford to continually witness negative publicity which will drive premium pax to other carriers and stay because of their offering.

[pussycat]

How much longer can this go on for?
The management at BA still has 44% of it’s front line staff unhappy. (if we were to just concentrate on what I consider to be their main front line, London Heathrow, then this percentage is obviously far higher)
The BA management, are using the legal system to quiet them down, but they are still obviously unhappy.
Why are these people not talking?
Our legal system is not the place to settle this.
I have two small children, and if I keep telling them they cannot have something “because I said so”, they would soon lose respect for me.
There has to be some negotiation.

[CallMeIshmael]

It will continue until there is a negotiated settlement.

Unite are likely to take this on as a cause celebre. Being the biggest union in the UK, they will need to demonstrate to its whole membership, that IA in the form of a strike can be an effective weapon despite major legal technicalities.

Failure to do this could render the threat of strikes useless.

[StephenLondon]

But the threat of a strike is increasingly being rendered useless – proven by the fact that so many unions (well funded unions, too) cannot even get a ballot correct, let alone communicate effectively with their own members. To Joe Public, this is getting to be like the little boy who cried wolf…

[Hippocampus]

Stepping back for a moment, the cavalier attitude of Unite and BASSA to strike ballots is simply staggering. The issue if the 12 week protection period is not a “legal loophole”. The law on 12 week protection is perfectly clear and Parliament’s intentions behind the law are perfectly clear.

BA raised the issue of protection over 6 months ago (let’s not forget that for 5 weeks of the initial 12 week period the dispute was silenced because of the General Election). Yet Unite stll proceeded with a ballot that was clearly flawed and only sought third party legal advice at the 11th hour.

BASSA has had over 12 months to work on its members database. Yet it evidently hasn’t fixed the problem and it proceeded with a ballot that was clearly flawed from the outset.

Had BA done nothing Unite could have called its members out on strike, leaving them exposed to being sacked (not that I believe BA would do this) and Unite being sued. Unite was clearly rattled by one letter to the ERS that it called off the ballot, instead of calling strikes and waiting to see how BA responds.

There is absolutely no hope of Unite obtaining another lawful strike mandate (again we are not talking about small loopholes here) and BA is effectively saving crew from the stupidity of their own representatives.

Why can’t BASSA and Unite tell their members the truth?

[pomerol]

Hippocampus

Could not agree more, this sorry excuse for a Union, is leading their members into the equivellent of the Charge of the Light Brigade.

It dissapoints me when I see Pussycat & CallMeIshmael, say that their must be a negotiated settlement, and blame BA for not negotiating, when BASSA has continually refused to negotiate since last October.

It also concerns me to see Unite under Red Len McCluskey, appearing to alligne themselves more closely with Duncan Folley’s BASSA, where as before they tended to try and reign them in, I think this does not bode well for the immediate future, they appear to be spoiling for a fight, unforunately it is the very poorly led CC who will be the losers.

It would be interesting to see a BASSA member of Cabin Crew, take its leadership to court on the grounds of ‘Deriliction of Duty’ or ‘Gross Negligence’ or simillar.

[CallMeIshmael]

It will be intersting to see if BA shares your views with the VCC being stood down thus saving on training costs, recency costs and inflight service standards etc.

There are still over 200 individual cases going through the courts, class actions plus the discrimination against legitimate strikers which could go all the way to ECHR.

There is still the large majority of LHR crew who continue to have a grievance against BA. CC appearing resigned for the long haul (no pun intended).

Clearly Len McCluskey has a contrary opinion to Hippo wrt obtaining a lawful strike mandate – “Unite is therefore immediately setting in hand preparations for a further industrial action ballot on the issues arising from management’s breach of agreements and policies of industrial intimidation” This statement being made following legal consultations and having an understanding of the loopholes BA were exploiting to circumvent the 78% mandate in favour of IA.

http://www.unitetheunion.org/news__events/latest_news/unite_statement_on_british_a-2.aspx

Do you truly believe the technicalities being exploited would have had a material impact on the significant mandate?

BA’s continued resort to courts and browbeating tactics are not winning the hearts and minds of stakeholders which are essential in such a people centric business.

[craigwatson]

“not winning the hearts of stakeholders”? I’d say the stakeholders have pretty much lost interest, as the share price remains strong, and IA has little or no impact on day to day operations.

The longer this goes on the worse for CC, and longer this goes on the worse the deal they can expect in the end.

How is it that when Bassa does something contravening the law, it’s BA’s fault. How is it a “legal loophole” to require an agency to follow that law?

[craigwatson]

ishmael – “This statement being made following legal consultations”

ya they have had some great legal consultations so far havent they!?

[pussycat]

Pomerol, please rest assured that I do not lay the blame for a lack of negotiation solely with the management of BA.
During the course of this dispute I have read that both sides blame the other for not negotiating. As in most cases of this nature, there are two sides to this story, and then there is the truth.
However, I am frustrated that I am forced to continue avoiding booking with my favoured airline where possible, as I cannot afford the disruption of industrial action, and don’t wish to be served by non bona fide BA crew.
I don’t believe a successful company can continue indefinately with such a high percentage of it’s front line staff unhappy. This is obviously not a militant minority. In my experience it is mainly a group of middle class mums and effeminate men. Any “bullyboy” tactics used by our national airline would indicate an underlying sexist tendancy. This I find worrying.

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