[pomerol]

Pussycat, I think any fair minded person would be of the opinion that the major portion of blame by far, for the lack of negotiation, lay firmly at the door of BASSA.

In the event of any future IA relating to this dispute, their is almost no chance of any disruption, regarding being served by non bona fida BA crew, this is not possible all BA CC are bona fida.

We Both know that you can take a set of figures and play with them to suit your own argument, I totally refute yours, and I have no doubt you would mine.

I would be very surprised indeed if BA management were involved in Bullyboy tactics, but would not be at all surprised in the Union being found to be employing such tactics.

Any “Bullyboy” tactics used by our national airline would indicate an underlying sexist tendancy, is that why you discribed the CC in the way you did.

[CallMeIshmael]

Beyond the hyperbole, particularly on other threads, Pussycat I would suggest you take your lead from BA.

If BA feel the dispute is at an end am sure they will imminently halt the unecessary expense of Volunteer Cabin Crew annual certification and the quarterly recency process. Similarly they will wish to ensure inflight standards.
Some may regard the inflight service and expertise computer programmers et al deliver as being sufficient that is their prerogative.

Most CC wish to see the myriad of legal cases currently going through the courts come to a decision over the next 6-12 months so have no appetite to accept an agreement so heavily slanted in favour BA.

Preventing IA does not address the underlying angst of the vast majority of LHR CC.

[Hippocampus]

A few additional points:

– VCCs are here to stay so the investment will pay dividends with VCCs on hand to assist recovery of BA’s operation during disruption which has in the past been stifled by BASSA intransigence.

– I have seen BA’s response to grievances over staff travel etc. The case against BA is weak and BA’s response shows that, like every move it has made, it has clearly thought everything through end has acted like a very reasonable employer

– ECHR? Good luck with that! Have you seen the backlog of cases?!

– This dispute is about a militant minority. A union leadership should fear it’s own members. In BASSA it is the other way around. When BASSA has successfully exploited a remote and mobile workforce to position itself as the sole source of the truth it’s not surprising that so many have historically supported it, not least when it has repeatedly misled its members. Fortunately, crew are clearly seeing the light and resigning from BASSA.

– Again, the issue of legality is not a legal loophole. Given the way Unite has acted in the way it has there are fundamental issues regarding the legality of the ballot which Unite should have considered earlier and advised its members accordingly.

Many observers if this dispute could see from the outset that BASSA was failing its membership. Yet, I doubt even the strongest critic of BASSA could ever have anticipated that their handling of this dispute could be so monumentally incompetent. The catalogue of mistakes and misjudgements is truly astounding.

Make no mistake, this dispute is lost. Unite’s dismal track record in both IA and the courts is not going to change. Unfortunately, some are unwilling or incapable of accepting it.

PS Nice stereotyping pussycat.

[Alasdair]

“A militant minority,” now you are stereotyping Hipo. It is made up of some 6000 individuals who are still ACTUALLY prepared to take strike action and risk losing money, staff travel and even their jobs.

It just strikes me what BA saw in so many militants in the first place (as you call them)?

If I may correct you, it’s probably more likely that they took on intelligent individuals who can easily see through a manipulative, bullying management. I have seen them give their all to the profession they are in and they undoubtedly do not want to be shoved out of it through unreasonable means.

[Tete_de_cuvee]

Some positive manouverings from both sides.
Let us hope they are genuine and sincere at not posturing for PR nor an attempt to influence the vote with a superficial gesture of praise.

http://www.unitetheunion.org/news__events/latest_news/fourth_strike_ballot_in_two_ye.aspx

[Tete_de_cuvee]

Someone at Waterside should remind WW that market perception is core to building and maintaining brand and therefore revenues. BA had been a solid top 5 performer…. no longer.

http://www.superbrands.uk.com/Pages/DocumentManager/CSB%202011%20Press%20Release.pdf

There should be a serious attempt to resolve this dispute fairly and equitably now before brand value declines further.

[pixelmeister]

Tete

you really ought to keep up with the news. WW is no longer CEO of BA. The current CEO is Keith Williams. I also note from the article in question

‘Eight of the top ten Consumer Superbrands remain the same as last year and includes British Airways, which despite a very challenging year still retains its place in the hearts of the British public.’

I agree that this dispute ought to be resolved, however, I cannot see that Unite are making any moves in that direction. If the union were serious in attempting to settle, it would not be balloting once again.

I also note that this dispute began over one issue – the imposition of a reduction in cabin crew levels for flights to and from LHR. By the second ballot a further two issues had been added. The ballot immediately prior to the current one had five issue of contention and this current ballot has a spanking ten items.

The problem with all this is that the more things that Unite ballot for, the less likely that they will reach an agreement with management. Thus it becomes apparent that the union have no desire to settle as every time a final agreement is in sight, the union plucks another raft of issues out of the hat. Negotiation requires give and take. Unite are not prepared to cede an inch. Hence my assertion that Unite are not serious about wishing to settle this dispute.

A more worrying development is the decline in Unite membership over the past twelve months. From a high of around 12,000, it has seen the numbers drop to now just under 10,000. If members follow the recommendation of the BASSA branch secretary, that could plummet to under 6,000 shortly. This could be catastrophic for Unite as it would then be below the 50% bar and ripe for derecognition.

Unite need to be extremely careful in the game they are playing (and it is a game). Comments from the Gen Sec like (of BA’s CEO) ‘ He has no way of knowing what weird and wondrous initiatives we might take should we engage in industrial action.’ are very revealing. Unite are into wierd initiatives ? What sort of confidence does that instil in the membership ? Unite cannot state what they might do, but allude to it being somewhat wacky. Half baked ideas could unravel the union.

[Tete_de_cuvee]

Pixelmeister – I posted this 9 days ago.. although KW is indeed the CEO Walsh is still very much pulling the strings.

Apparently WW has made himself responsible for BA’s industrial relations and dealing with Unite despite moving onto a more lucrative higher plane… or hire plane

Surely as it is allegedly so over, it would be similar to PrinceTalal deciding to directly oversee the doorman or housekeeping responsibilities at the Savoy Hotel.

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/Articles/2011/02/22/36213/walsh-still-leading-ba-union-talks.html

Doesn’t he trust Keith Williams? Or could it be a Tony Hayward, Robert Dudley handover scenario … hopefully.

[Hippocampus]

Hardly surprising that WW is still making himself available for talks with Unite. I’m sure there are other internal issues WW may still be involved in.

One of the many, many, grave errors made by BASSA and Unite was to personalise this dispute (as evidenced by the snide remarks above) and portray it as the work of a lone out of control CEO, whereas anyone with a shred of intellect could see that the rest of the company was fully supportive of the need for permanent structural reform.

Even if KW was solely in charge of negotiations any hope of BA doing a u turn and capitulating to Unite’s unreasonable demands is completely misguided.

Looking at the latest list of grievances (all ten of them!) the irony is tragic.

Fortunately more and more crew are seeing the light and resigning from Unite.

As for “weird and wondrous initiatives”, well good luck with that Lenny, Duncan promised us “guerilla tactics” 9 months ago and we’ve been waiting in anticipation ever since!

[pixelmeister]

Tete

and your evidence that WW is ‘pulling the strings’ at BA is ??? Sorry, your statement simply doesn’t wash. I can quite appreciate that WW may well be still involved in the Unite dispute, but can see that the benefit of this is that it allows KW to get on with running the company and not be distracted by a sideshow.

Presumably you agree that Unite’s tactic of an ever-increasing list of demands is their way of ensuring that resolution is not reached, after all, assuming BA agreed to this set of demands, they would immediately pop up with a further shopping list. Whilst Messrs Simpson and Woodley may have negotiated in good faith, it seems that the BASSA and CC89 executives have no intention of doing so and that Len McCluskey supports this strategy. If this is what companies can expect from Unite, it doesn’t auger well for the future.

[Tete_de_cuvee]

Well Pixel the evidence was in the link embedded in the posting but I guess for some, providing a link is a useful as giving Stephen Hawkins a skipping rope.

Word from the front would indicate that although BASSA is losing membership they are not signing-up for the agreement/offer.

Can BA provide numbers of Legacy Crew who have signed and are therefore supportive of the BA offer?

[Metmanmart]

Believe it or not…WW is STILL pulling the strings..He is determined to see this out as a personnal grudge..He is NOT to be trusted and will do everything in his power to bring the Union, and its true hardworking CC to their knees, no matter what the cost..This once great airline, renouned throughout the world has been taken to the edge by Walsh..The people striking are not doing it for money, and don’t want to see the airline collapse..All they want is a fair playing field

[StephenLondon]

I don’t believe it, Metmanmart.

What I do believe is that the union has become morally bankrupt, so are still invoking WW as their hate figure. WW has IAG to run, and has clearly left things to the new BA CEO (witness KW’s recent letter to crew, and imposing a bonus on cabin crew).

CC I recently spoke with on two long-haul sectors are tired of the union antics, tired of the rhetoric, tired of the misinformation from BASSA. They just want to do the job they love so much. Hence many of them are now former-BASSA members who have signed up to the contract terms offered.

[pixelmeister]

Tete
you asked

‘Can BA provide numbers of Legacy Crew who have signed and are therefore supportive of the BA offer?’

Have you asked them ? Not sure any on here could answer that question. BTW I presume by ‘Legacy Crew’ you mean any who haven’t joined recently.

[pixelmeister]

Metanmart

your posting avoids some unpleasant truths. BA has been on a downward spiral for a number of years. True, the airline has been innovative in the premium cabins, but it has based its profitability on being able to capture a large slice of the business and first market. The LoCos have taken off (pardon the pun) in Europe and offer a reasonable service to most destinations. BA’s saving grace is its ability to offer connections at LHR to its longhaul network. BA shorthaul in economy is not radically better than the competition and you really have to work hard to justify paying premium prices for flights lasting a couple of hours max.

Now, having a reliance on the business traveller is fine when the economy is booming and the world a stable place, but throw in a bit of terrorism, rocketing fuel prices and the odd revolution in the middle east and they all run for the hills. BA got burned badly by 9/11, 7/7, the oil price spike and the global stock market decline and recession. Now I’m not sure how much of this you can blame Willie Walsh for. I’m certain that the Unite union would like to say he was behind it all. The plain facts are that BA was in pretty dire financial straits when Walsh took over as CEO. He has done a decent job in keeping the business afloat,even when it was burning about a million sterling a day. He has managed to reduce the cost base, secured a merger with Iberia and an alliance with American – tasks which his forebears never achieved. He has given the company a degree of stability at a time when the airline industry has gone through a really bad patch.

I find it interesting to note that in the past year around half of the hard working cabin crew actually ignored any strike call and reported for work normally. On top of that the union has had around 30% of it’s members resign in the past twelve months. That’s a startling figure for a workforce in dispute with management. I can’t think of any other dispute where so many have voluntarily abandoned their trade union. It does suggest that there are large segments of the rank and file membership who are unhappy with the way that the union leadership are conducting this dispute. At the last ballot, nearly half of the remaining membership did not support strike action.

I’m not sure what this ‘fair playing field’ you allude to is. If people want to be treated fairly, then striking is not the way to address the issue.

[Author]

Posts