[FormerlyDoS]

“Business Classes in Europe are far from lamentable, when compared to alternatives in other countries, and particularly at the price points at which they are offered. “

I agree totally, VK.

Lamentable does not being to describe what a rip-off these flights are, regardless of who provides them.

I am very taken with easyJet, these days. Booking an emergency exit row and invest in a nice carry on picnic, buy a couple of mini bottles of wine enroute (at a nice discount) and the effect is pretty similar to the cr*p that the legacy airlines serve up (and the seats are better than NEK, which should be declared against human rights, as they are a form of torture.). And you can change to an earlier flight, free, on your return leg…. try asking for that from a legacy and they will have a seizure.

Hail Vueling to the fray, if they come to LGW, that will increase competition by driving the product upwards.

Ryanair will continue to own the cost leadership spot.

[Henkel.Trocken]

I think it’s clear, if the legacy carriers in Europe want to continue to have a C offering then it needs to improve. Of course it suits the chief apologist to undertake his usual role on this but that’s as often, out of touch with reality.

DoS is right, you can book an exit or front row seat on easyJet and have an experience which is comparable to legacy C. Germanwings keep the middle seat free at the front for very reasonable fares so spot the difference between that and short haul C on any European airline.

It won’t be too long until easyJet keep middle seats free too for a fee and then the legacy carriers will have nothing to differentiate their product.

[Swindoneric]

@FDOS, fully agree with your sentiments. Was trekking around the Nordics last week and did the BYOB thing on three on time flights with Norwegian, with exit seats reserved, working on free wifi.

[FormerlyDoS]

Henkel

Germanwings keep the middle seat free at the front for very reasonable fares so spot the difference between that and short haul C on any European airline.”

Vueling do, too, same outcome.

[FormerlyDoS]

Swindoneric

I’ve only used Norwegian a few times, but have been impressed, too.

[JohnHarper]

Irons, I don’t think I suggested you were worried.

There seemed to be a level of we must understand what is best for the airlines and therefore put up with it creeping in to some posts. I would disagree, we should start voting with our feet over the short haul C products when the likes of Germanwings can match them for a fraction of the fare until the legacy carriers wake up.

[VintageKrug]

I’m not familiar with the Germanwings product.

Do they have an online booking App?
Regular departures at convenient times to business destinations?
Service from major airports like Heathrow?
To they permit on board one bag which can be lifted and fitted into the overhead, plus an additional personal item?
Do they reserve the best seats for their most frequent users?
Offer priority check in for their best customers, even when in economy?
Priority baggage check with 2x32kgs checked allowance for their best customers?
Lounge access, with vintage champagne and table service food for their best customers?
Showers?
Complimentary newspapers and magazines in the lounges, newspapers for all passengers on boarding?
Free ‘net access in the lounges?
Empty space between seats next to you?
What is their seat pitch?
Full complimentary bar on board, including Champagne?
Hot food on longer flights and a decent English Breakfast?
Proper Tea?
Baggage interline agreements?
A hub which connects you to a broader longhaul network?
A frequent flyer scheme useable globally as part of a major alliance?

If, as you say, germanwings can offer all this, I’ll be impressed. I suspect it’s a patchy ability to deliver some of this, and so it’s not really comparable to Club Europe.

I do, however, suspect it’s the model that will become more prevalent – just as you all see no contradiction in the way you criticise current premium offerings, demanding even more than the panoply of benefits already offered, while simultaneously praising a low-cost carrier which charges rock bottom prices, and pays its staff far less than you think BA should be paying it own crews. The hypocrisy is jaw-dropping.

http://www.britishairways.com/clubeurope/

[BeckyBoop]

Just remembered Air Berlin who are a short haul airline are swithing their Business class seat to fully flat ones like the Etihad ones.

I can’t beleive how many of you brand WW as being a bully, have any of you ever met him? I have met him before (just once) and he is a really lovely and gentle guy!

Esselle, I agree with you regarding Frank, are you interested in his job?

[VintageKrug]

I haven’t been overwhelmed with the rapidity of FvdP’s changes,either, but he is constrained by funding issues. Easy for the retirees to expect BA to turn on a dime, but few organisations the size of BA are capable of that, as anyone with any corporate experience would know.

As the costs released by the deployment of Mixed Fleet have come to be realised, these have been re-invested. At a time of rising fuel and other costs, as well as the arrival of the new fleet, there are still other constraints which have limited what he wants to do.

But I think he has a good medium term plan, and two years is not that long a time given the many tangible “quick wins” he’s brought about (e.g. iPads, improved catering budgets) and the cycles on which planning works. He’s started several longer term initiatives which are beginning to bear fruit.

[FormerlyDoS]

“I haven’t been overwhelmed with the rapidity of FvdP’s changes,either, but he is constrained by funding issues. Easy for the retirees to expect BA to turn on a dime, but few organisations the size of BA are capable of that, as anyone with any corporate experience would know.”

Which is why corporations have a finite lifecycle and the Fortune 500 companies have an average lifespan of about 43 years.

Thus, the market does not excuse poor performance and ultimately the under performing corporations cease to exist, by extinction or M&A activity and the more agile firms, with higher velocity, win the day.

[Irons80]

Well in which case, if BA was privatised some 25 years ago, it’s got another good 20 years to run surely?

[FormerlyDoS]

Average of 43 years, Irons80, think about it.

In any event, the statistical numbers are lagging indicators, the seismic shifts in markets tend to come from paradigm shifting disruptive competitors and environmental factors.

[Irons80]

Yes I understand what averages mean, thank you very much.

Nonetheless, I don’t think you have any evidence whatsoever to say that BA’s number is somehow up, especially as they are now part of a larger group which is actively looking to expand and purchase other airlines.

If their revenues are growing and passenger numbers are stable and in the main they make a profit I think they’ve got a little while left.

Back on topic, it’s premium passengers which make them money and we know in truth that for most European airlines, short haul business class appears primarily to exist for transfers and redemptions. With that in mind, even if I wanted it to change, I cannot see what would. Ultimately, I for one am loyal to BA and sometimes pay for CE primarily because of the on-the-ground benefits as opposed to in-the-air ones. And since CE earns 4 x TPs, which are vital for maintaining status, I admit they have me over a barrel and I am not that fussed about it.

[FormerlyDoS]

“Nonetheless, I don’t think you have any evidence whatsoever to say that BA’s number is somehow up, especially as they are now part of a larger group which is actively looking to expand and purchase other airlines.”

I’m not saying that, which is why I commented on the average of 43 years, could mean BA could last for another 9 months or be there in 120 years.

It’s about the relative agility of a corporation to the velocity of market changes and disruption.

Being a 600kg bear comes with plusses and minuses.

I think you missed the point, but it doesn’t matter, it will be what it will be.

[Henkel.Trocken]

I think the LH introduction of limo services for F passengers in the UK spells the start of the change in premium offerings.

Let’s see how long it takes AF & BA to catch on. The former will do it quite quickly I imagine.

[Author]

Posts