Flew on the new SQ business class seat in November from SIN-HKG return on the 777-300's and from SIN-SYD on A380.
The seat certainly is wide and service from staff was good. During the day flights between SIN-HKG, the seat only reclines to a maximum of about 25 degrees. It was very uncomfortable. It will recline to 180 degrees only if you stand up and then bring the vertical part of the seat forward! Certainly, this is fine for an overnight flight when you want to sleep.
However, for flights during the day, it is impossibly uncomfortable with the limited recline. Has anyone else had a similar experience?
CX and Emirates must be laughing.
Editors, why hasn't this been reported properly?
ChrisFreeman: the design of the Singapore Airlines seat to which you refer has been commented upon extensively and in detail in the travel press - both business and leisure.
If you have ever flown Virgin Atlantic or Air New Zealand in their business class cabins, then you'll know that they employ a similar arrangement to Singapore's 'flipper'.
Some passengers receive this style of seat extremely warmly, as it tends to afford a flatter, longer sleeping surface within a given footprint.
Others actively avoid such seats, as they do not suit their sleeping/slumping style, which demands a greater level of seat recline, most usually being a single continuous 'while-still-seated' conversion from seat to bed.
As long as there are a significant number of passengers who prefer one arrangement over the other, then it's likely that airlines will continue to develop seats which follow one style or the other.
Cathay Pacific's longhaul business class, for example, is marked down by some because it's very narrow and lacks window-access, but marked-up because it has continuous recline. On Emirates, there are two completely different seat-pitch possibilities in their A380 J cabin - quite apart from the numerous J-seat variations across their fleet at large.
I agree that some passengers may have to try each style to learn which they personally prefer, but I can assure you that the airlines themselves know precisely what their customers think and that's what drives their decision to adopt a 'flipper' or 'slumper' format.
Likewise, the travel press discusses this issue almost every time a new seat is launched.
You certainly have one up on me as I have never seen such criticisms expressed. Can you direct me to the edition of Business Traveller Asia Pacific where this has been discussed.
I find it difficult to believe that anyone on a day flight would find the seat comfortable.
"SIA has gone back to basics in terms of the mechanics of the seating – it reclines electronically, but there are no massage, or lumbar support options, and it converts manually to a bed by flipping over the seat back to connect with the ledge. As with Virgin’s business class product, this means you have to get out of the bed to convert it, but I didn’t really see that as an issue."
http://www.businesstraveller.com/tried-and-tested/airlines/singapore-airlines/flight-check-singapore-airlines-a380
Singapore Airlines A380 business class
Published: 06/10/2008 - Filed under: Tried & Tested » Airlines » Features » Tried & Tested » Tried & Tested » Airlines » Singapore Airlines »
To be fair, that article refers to having to stand up to recline the seat as not 'being an issue'. My complaint is lack of recline when seated in a normal non-sleeping position. SQ seems to be getting away with this so far without comment (and I understand that they are looking to rectify this).
In any event, I have no doubt that SQ will continue to win the J class awards. However, I'm going back to CX so at least I won't have a sore back from sitting upright!
i guess it highly depends on your own preference since i found cx's longhaul business class very tight in the herringbone setting and would opt for sq's wide seat.
one thing to note: sq and cx both have a short-haul and long-haul business class seating. since some sin-hkg flights have onwards connection to the u.s., most of the fleet will have long haul seats (which may be less comfortable for the sin-hkg leg but is highly preferable for eg. sin-hkg-sfo).
sq has just lauched a new lie-flat business class seats (and yes, it can do z position) for short haul which i think is the best in class. in comparison, cx's short haul business class seats was last redesigned nearly 10 years ago.
tarisingh - 07/12/2009 09:23 GMT
came back Business class from Brisbane a couple of weeks ago - over night from Brisbane , was asked immediately if We wanted supper or the breakfast option - I chose supper , was shocked that at breakfast was not even offered a cup of tea! (blurb in menu says they only offer one meals to allow passengers to sleep as long as possible on short flights (7.5 hours!) but not to offer teas because you have had supper tut tut SQ.
I have been a great fan of SQ for decades now - this trip (All legs) have lacked the magic touch - the crew smiled a lot but not with the sincerity I remembered and enjoyed. Watch out SQ
Thanks. I thought it was just me who was of the view that SQ's current level of service was highly overrated. Check in at Sydney and Hong Kong last month took 20 minutes because SQ were understaffed at the business class counters. Yet, SQ keeps winning awards.
I have had fantastic service in the last 12 months on CX international business from check in through to baggage collection.
Airpocket - 08/12/2009 07:33 GMT
Wouldn't it be great if SQ, as a result of declining service, actually got toppled by CX the next time the awards are given out!How would that be for a kick up the rear!
Well it was Skytrax who named Cathay Pacific Airline of the Year 2009 at the World Airline Awards 2009 ceremony...and Air Transport World named Asiana Airline of the Year 2009...Qatar got the Travel Trade Gazette Airline of the Year 2009 award, and Virgin Atlantic Cargo got the Cargo Airline of the Year 2009 award...so SQ is not winning everything! They just have good marketing spin and are trading on a long-held reputation and slight mystique. It was just OAG that named Singapore Airlines Airline of the Year 2009.
Airpocket - 08/12/2009 10:38 GMT
SQ aren't the only ones with a supposedly effective 'spin machine' at their disposal. Just look at VS. But, all the spin & marketing in the world can't help you if you're a mediocre airline with mediocre food and mediocre crew. Passengers are going to wisen up pretty quickly and will abandon you in droves.
I must admit, the recent negative publicity has put me off using them for my future trips to SE Asia and Oz. I think I might use Qatar or EK.
MarcusUK - 08/12/2009 13:26 GMT
Poor experiences on LHR-SIN-SYD return September & returning Nov.
You need to seperate the 773-ER from the 773, especially the one refurbished with Regional seating business class on the overnight from SIN - Sydney. I had to roll up a blanket to pad the top & mid cushions where the gap was when the seat was angled out. It is NOT a flat bed, & God help you if you drop anything, as you have to lie flat on the floor elbow deep underneath into the shell that is sealed from all sides to retrieve anything!
The seats are too low in the cabin, noise travels, no privacy between seats, & you can hear everything 3 rows in front of you or behind the whole flight, even a newspaper being turned. It is a badly designed cabin.
There is a considerable thread on this already on BT...
SQ have reduced meals so you EITHER get dinner or breakfast from SIN to all Australian routes, pretty stupid & it is putting many off. Desserts have been cut, the crews are presenting up-market ice cream, scooped from a large catering box in the galley, instead! This is causing continuing problems raised on here...They are treating Australian routes as regional, the same as SIN-HKG.
This is a very grave mistake as once experienced they WONT fly this seat.
I have had no explanations from the queries raised through the NSW Manager for SQ Craig, who did forward them onto Singapore.
The same foodless lounges & meal standards applied on return 2 months later so these issues have not been addressed.
I have raised these issues as in a different thread, with The Manager of SQ in NSW, in writing & directly. The issues were forwarded o Singapore...& no response has been received to either of us!
I have to say though with a long haul flight, the new A380 seat is excellent overall, but i wont be using SQ down to Australia from SIN due to te meal cuts & varying seats & 4 different business cabins they now run. U pay for one product you expect it to be there.
Perhaps, customers in Business take their own up market sandwiches when travelling SQ, so you can choose whether to eat or be hungry after a 9 hr flight, in the morning or evening.
Perhaps when SQ see & it can be seen that customers are bringing their own food to ensure of nutrition & comfort, they will wake up.
JackyLek - 08/12/2009 14:09 GMT
I just booked my ticket from LHR-SGN , and for the trip SQ want 2900£ for B777 service and 3100£ for the A380 service. But my choice was TG which only charge 2100£ . I think SQ is overpriced their product a lot and you dont get the value for the difference gap for the fare .
MarcusUK - 08/12/2009 14:18 GMT
I agree.
SQ have also had seat sales (The BT search engine is petty good a tool to use), & i bought a seat in July LHR-SIN SYD return, Business, for £1912!
This time before Xmas /New Year, all the Airlines appear to be charging high rates , even if you travel out of peak next year.
There will be many offers when sales slump in January, & good deals around, on most airlines. I certainly had a choice to travel in Sept return Nov on CX, MH EK EY for around £1800 return to Sydney, in offers.
I also gained the full miles enabling another one way back in Business, & earned added a VS Gold card in the process also!!
Hess963 - 12/12/2009 09:19 GMT
Mark regarding your recent food service experiences from SIN to Australia with SQ are very disturbing. What--whether dinner or breakfast? What is going on here! I already comment this in an other thread that I flew in June 09 from SIN to SYD and I had both services. Alright the breakfast service consists of one croissant and jam, one slice of papaya and hot beverage which appalled me how cheap it was and the lack of choices. Now you are saying that you only get one food service for a 7-8 hours flight. What is this -- SQ moving to a low cost carrier attitude? If it so--then SQ should at least inform the transiting pax in SIN to eat their dinner or similar in the lounge before their onward flight to Australia and that they only get one food service onboard. These informations and possibilities are essential for the pax's s feeling of comfort and service expectations. I understand when a lot here are angry and felt fooled by SQ.
Now it is the food cuttings, apart from the diversities of business class seats and the untypical SQ service attitude( lack of smile, more robotic..) What is going on in SQ? Has SQ finally reached the zenith?
MarcusUK - 17/12/2009 23:44 GMT
Nigel, the NSW Manager for SQ, told me that there services for SIN -Australia, are now regarded as regional! Not for an overnight 8 hr flight as far as i am concerned!
Yes, one meal even if you book the cook, u get it breakfast or as you take off on the 00.30hrs down to Sydney.But they started this almost 2 yrs ago? I got off the flight very hungry & lots of hungry fellow passengers also. An un-waraneted cutback for the pitiful amount it will save, food was always one of the star elements on SQ, but no more!
You will also find the SQ Lounge in Changai T3, has lots of food labels, but most has run out or they done have it there!
It would be a pleasant change if any editors reading the above would accurately set out the current standard of SQ service in their magazines.
MarcusUK - 18/12/2009 09:28 GMT
Yes Chris this indeed would be helpful.
BT did highlight changes to one refurbished 773 used on the 00.30hrs flight down to Sydney each day, prior to it coming into service.
Varying aircraft mean on the same route, you can have the old style Raffles (747), new Business (A380/773-ER), or the "regional Business seats, 773 /A333.
This seriously affects flights from SIN - SYD/ BNE/ PER/ ADL/ MEL.
Completely different cabins, space, comfort & sleeping capabilities.
However, I Don't consider an overnight 8 hr flight to Australia as regional, & that configuration is as many have noted, unsuitable. I am avoiding, & would not pay a premium fare for that cabin, or ever use it down to Australia again.
Amongst frequent flyers themselves, there's a tendency to attach a reputation to a carrier based on what's often a very narrow field of experience - a few routes, a few aircraft types. It's arguably made worse in the UK thanks to the proliferation of carriers' flagship routes which touch down in London, and which therefore generate a high proportion of UK-reported experiences of those carriers.
The fact is, however, that many of these carriers employ extremely variable service standards on their other routes Worldwide - whether that's in terms of the soft or the hard product - and yet those carriers' evangelists often seem unaware of this.
So, quite apart from the practical implications of a single publication having the space to cover all the different service standards of even the main carriers on each of their routes, you also have a situation where a large contingent of the readership wouldn't actually be all that keen on having their loyalties challenged, nor reading about routes they rarely, if ever, patronise.
Add all that together and a 'Singapore Expose' doesn't strike me as a particularly commercial proposition.
That said, I personally think that the 'blind' reporting of (regularly unwarranted) reputations is fairly confined to the mainstream, non-specialist press. It seems to me that, for the most part, publications like BT are reasonably up-front in terms of reporting the service standards as they relate to a particular route - without implicit or explicit suggestion that it's possible to extrapolate those service standards network-wide. Indeed, they're the ones most likely to break news like (or remind of) the fact that SQ's MAN-SIN service will no longer be non-stop from March 28 2010.
It must also be remembered, quite apart from frequent flyers' own tendencies to laud, say, SQ based on quite limited experience of their routes, that flyers appreciate very different things. Once again, I was discussing with a friend the Virgin/NZ flipper seat the other night, in comparison to other carriers' fully-reclining versions. He's absolutely of the opinion that the VS/NZ product suits his preferences perfectly. I'm absolutely of the opinion that it does not suit mine. We're both quite right, of course.
So, since SQ's flights between SIN and Oz are often quite short overnighters, perhaps they have plenty of passenger research to suggest that a single meal service is appreciated to afford the greatest amount of sleep - like British Airways' Sleeper Service.
Or, perhaps, it is indeed simple cost-cutting.
What's incontrovertible is that Singapore Airlines themselves make no mention of some of their hard and soft product variations in any of their own publications - online or in hard copy. There again, why would they? As many have posted here, they compare unfavourably to their headline-grabbing flagship products.
That then is one of the significant benefits of this forum and others like it; not to bash a carrier, not to blindly laud one, but to extend the terms of reference of the publication and allow travellers on a wide number of routes to impart their experience. If individuals do so regularly and consistently, then other readers can effectively learn about other posters' likes, dislikes, demands and needs, and align them with their own. Ultimately then, we can read their posts and instinctively know whether we personally are likely to react and respond similarly - and hopefully avoid the missed expectations like those experienced above.
Now, none of that's to say that BT and others couldn't expand their route coverage, nor even that they couldn't commission a generic feature into at least hard product variations. I'd almost guarantee, however, that some of the carriers that would come out 'best' in such a comparison in terms of consistency, would be ones that often generate some of the most vehement negative postings here.
You can't please 'em all!
Continentalclub,
what an excellent well thought out post. Perhaps others will take note and apply some of your sound logic before they comment on the posts of other contributors.
Safe travels everyone,
Jonathan
ffidrac - 19/12/2009 05:30 GMT
Just had first hand experience of this thread. Putting on old - 2 generation ago Raffles seats - and calling it business is unworthy of SQ. What they have is a premium economy product which those of us unfortunate to have been booked on SQ 231/232 end up with, yet paying business fare.
But it also the little things which regular SQers now see missing - no satay appetiser, desserts which are ice cream, no nuts with predinner cocktail unless asked for, and even the attention to detail of FAs knowing your name is beginning to disappear.
SQ need to remember the phrase which many US airlines use when the plane has landed - thanking one for your custom in the knowledge that there are a choice of carriers.
Regarding the food, all they have to do is rephrase their menu - instead of making it an "or" selection, they just have to say "you may wish to choose a meal or breakfast depending on how much uninterrupted time you want on the flight". Most seem to eat in the Silver Kris lounge before boarding and there was plenty both in quantity and choice - it is probably all about brand and how it is presented
As an LPPS Krisflyer I can remember the days when SQ underpromised and overdelivered. Now it's very much the other way round with overpromise and underdelivery. Seats are a matter of pot luck with so many variations particularly of business class seats that you really don't know what you are buying. Catering has been cut for years with things being reduced little by little, less juice with breakfasts, fewer flights with satay, salads reduced in size and quality and if you don't eat ice cream, no dessert whatever. Turning services from SIN to AUS into regional services is just a bad joke and it is a major cutback on all fronts.
At the same time fares have risen way beyond what is realistic in a time of global recession. Some of the new hard product - the seats in C on the A380 and the 77W are poor, far too wide to sit in comfortably are awful - if imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, then no other airline has introduced anything remotely similar which tells a story. Krisworld is improved but I've always thought that was more use to the masses in Y than anyone else.
I think SQ is now a falling star, others are far better but their corporate arrogance would never allow them to see it. I fly with them less and less. As someone who achieved LPPS status, you would think they might ask why but they never have. In some ways, that says it all.
MarcusUK - 26/12/2009 14:45 GMT
The SIN - SYD 747 has been replaced by an older 777-200ER!
Just looking to book down to Sydney into Feb/March, there is now one only A380 service a day, 1 x 773-ER (both with the 1-2-1 Business cabin), now also a refurbed 773 with regional seating, & an old 772 with Raffles class seating!
Sneaky.
Whats going on SQ?
I wont be booking when their are 3 differently dated cabins, with 4 different aircraft one one route...
MarcusUK - 04/01/2010 10:42 GMT
Looking today at the SQ services (In peak season) from SIN-SYD, it seems they have removed one aircraft a day now!
The 747 has disappeared, but so has the A380 on certain days.
On say Feb 14th 2010, there is only one 777-300ER, with the "new" business cabin & seats, the other 773 & older 772-ER have either the "Regional/old Raffles seats!
Clearly booking with SQ is a lottery now, cabins, seating & different services.
Sad to say, I am not going to book a flight on a worldwide flight, where the cabin changes, the seats are highly variable, & in fact, SQ are not being open & honest about this.
They continue to sell tickets, when you are buying into a business/First travel experience, that simply wont be on yr flight!
Perhaps BT could elicit some response from SQ on what why how when these un-announced changes are implimented?
In my view, this relegates SQ from its world class standard of the past...
Business Traveller replies:
We've just published a detailed news piece which should clarify this situation. To read this please visit:
http://www.businesstraveller.com/sia-upgrades-singapore-sydney-flights
MarcusUK - 04/01/2010 18:14 GMT
Many Thanks BT, on the ball & adds much clarity.
However, having travelled in the 773 refurbished cabin in Sept 09, I would have to say it was not only a vast change to the ne cabins, but not as comfortable or suitable for overnight trips. The older Raffles was more suitable with softer higher seating, less noise, a better cabin design.
I would not choose to travel on their 777-300 services overnight.
I also think their offer of only one meal in 7-8 hrs to Sydney (Dinner or breakfast) is very poor, a minor cost saving to them, but has a great impact on their food standards, & reputation.
Its the rare time i have left a flight hungry, having had one meal in the 9 hrs i was aboard!
Thanks BT.
Now, do an article comparing the overall QUALITY of SQ business class on the SYD-SIN route. Look at some of the above posts. There is more than confusion. It is more of a mutiny. What on earth is going on?
Where did this one meal thing come from? If you choose a flight departing any time before c.11pm, you get 2 meals, that includes the flagship mid-evening SIN-SYD/MEL/BNE flights, and all of the daytime returning flights into SIN. The only "one meal flights" are the ones that depart at or after midnight, where they assume you've eaten in the lounge or on your connecting flight, and most probably want to sleep - what, do all of you normally have two meals between the hours of midnight and 7am?! It's no different to BA's sleeper service flights, or most airlines' overnight flights between SE Asia and Japan or Korea
tarisingh - 05/01/2010 08:52 GMT
when I posted my original message about the "one meal" - it was really the fact that because I had chosen supper I was not even offered a cup of tea before landing - I wasn't that bothered about something to eat but thought it was totally naff not to offer a beverage even - Have last week had a trip to India on Jet Airways , flight was only 8 hours (one hour less than Syd- SIN) was in economy, had two FANTASTIC hot meals and GENUINELY friendly staff - the way to go!
MarcusUK - 05/01/2010 09:19 GMT
It has been the policy of SQ for the last 2 yrs.
I made a formal written complaint to SQ, & ended having a chat with the SQ Manager for NSW, Australia, in October.
He indicated these changes ahead for the 777's but did say the policy of one meal on Australian overnight routings had been there for 2 years which it has. SQ on board chatting to them, also told me it was really seen as regional service by the crews, & in terms of supplies!
Given that most of the passengers on SQ services from SIN to AUS are connecting and many of them from Europe, the idea of a regional service is in my view misguided, you are not travelling for 7.5 hours but more like 24. Downgrading the AUS services leads to a poor overall impression of the route when you expect consistency throughout which is what others provide. Of course as usual SQ will know best and I'll just spend more and more of my money with others.
While the SQ internally classifies its service as being "regional", I'm not sure what everyone is complaining about. The "regional" C seat is a normal lie flat wedgie seat and no worse than the Spacebed (offered to FRA, JFK, NRT and LAX) or any competitor offering between SE Asia and Australia, with the exception of a small handful of QF/BA flights with fully flat beds. By this definition of regional, LH is only a regional airline as it doesn't offer fully flat beds anywhere. Are there any other examples of inferior service vs other SQ flights? Same lounge, same IFE, same champagne, same (measly) amenity kit... anything else different?
As for "one meal flights", 3 out of the 4 SIN-SYD flights and *all* 4 of the return SYD-SIN flights serve two meals, so I'm not sure what the problem is? Bottom line: if you want two meals, don't choose a midnight departure, when the majority of your fellow passengers would rather sleep
Hess963 - 05/01/2010 13:24 GMT
Hi everyone !!
There are other airlines which offer full flat bed between SEA and Australia/NewZealand--CX, VS, NZ and even only a small player in this area--but has a good impact as it offers a full flat bed--GA ! So if you consider the Middle Eastern carriers which serves Middle East and Australia directly or with a stop--which offer also superior full flat beds like EY, EK and soon QR. So there is still a handful of other carriers beside BA/QF.
My redemption zone map tells me HKG is not in SE Asia, but hey, I can see some people wanting to fly SYD-AKL-HKG-SIN to get a flat bed and four meals...
When did EK start offering flat beds on anything other than the A380?
Hess963 - 05/01/2010 14:51 GMT
I am referring to the A380 of EK as offering full flat beds. As far as I know there is no plans on the side of EK to refurbish existing aircrafts to full flat bed.
This will be a good possibility for BT staffs to research, if EK is planning such refurbishments in the future.
suitdude30 - 05/01/2010 17:39 GMT
I completely agree with Chris Freeman's comments concerning the limited recline of the New Business Class seats. Yes, very spacious and wide, but it's really only good in 2 positions - upright and fully horizontal. There's no in-between for relaxation, like reading or watching TV. I flew the A380 from Singapore to Paris in November, and my humble opinion regarding the seat's shortcomings was shared by a couple who held PPS Solitaire status (i.e. SQ's most frequent F/J class travellers). I prefer the Boeing 747's Business Class Spacebeds. In fact, the old Ultimo seats on the un-refurbished Boeing 777-300 aircraft are even more comfortable.
suitdude30 - 05/01/2010 17:47 GMT
Actually, this post is regarding SQ's First Class...I flew MEL-SIN on SQ238, an older, unrefurbished B777-300. The other 2 flights are an A380, and a B777-300ER, both with diffferent F Class products. My F class seat had very poor recline, and the leg/foot rest didn't even come up very far. It wasn't much better than the Ultimo seats in Business. Fantastic legroom (64" pitch), however. Why is SQ operating 3 different types of F and J class on this route, and charging the same fare for different products? Especially glaring when comparing F class seat on the 777-300 ER with the 777-300. Of course, you pay a premium for Suites on the A380, but that's just crazy.
all B777-300 are due to be retrofitted with same first class seats as those in B777-300ER and new regional business seats (lie flat) as those in A330-300.
MarcusUK - 05/01/2010 22:09 GMT
The regional 773 /A333 C seats are Not lie flat!
The 1st class seats were fitted with the business seats from the 773-ER /A380. I travelled on this refurbed old noisy 773, in Sept 09.
As posted already by various readers from various routes to Australia, the cabin is low set, seats barely above yr head, no privacy & space is badly used. The seats are angled, with a large gap in between the leather cushions of the lower & middle...(I had to stuff a blanket in-between them), & you hear everyone from rows ahead & behind, as there are no sound breaks, or privacy, in the whole cabin of C class. I could put my fist between the cushion & side of the seat the gaps are so large sidewards also.There is a huge space wasted. The seat shell, if you drop anything through the seat very possible with the gaps between the cushions, you will have to move yr fellow passenger next to you, lie as flat on the floor as you can from the front, & drag you arm into the base of the shell, as you can reach it any other way. Staff were fishing out dropped items of several people, with serving tongues!
The diagonal entry to the forward of the cabin, caused several passengers to bang their shoulders or knees throughout the flight, trying to pass through with no visibility. Step once to the left then to the right to get through!
Before we took off, one stewardess was knocked flat by another passenger walking through & literally hit the floor on her back!
The cabin & changes are to increase Business capacity on the route, & SQ have removed one flight a day from the route (747, also there were 2 A380's at one stage a day).
I don't have a problem from SIN -HKG with this seat, not on an 8 hr overnight flight where the seat is awkward, cabin noisy & simply for cost reasons, they remove one meal. Everyone in the full cabin ate dinner, 5 people all made complaints, & double this when we left delayed in approach after 9.5 hrs, without a 2nd meal! Several Business passengers were going to the airport cafe to eat breakfast
I wont be flying SQ down to Sydney, it is a lottery, & i am sorry but an unsuitable C class cabin & simply not worth paying for. This is not comparing to the "New business" seat or cabin, but even to old the Raffles.
Take yr own sandwiches for dinner or breakfast, otherwise you will go hungry!
Wildgoose - 06/01/2010 17:39 GMT
Maybe BT Asia could carry out a survey/review to determine which airline offers the best J Class product between SIN and Oz/NZ?
AsiaPacific - 07/01/2010 12:49 GMT
The issue with only one meal on overnight flights is not the volume of food as far as I am concerned, its just that one may choose the breakfast but have to put up with the clatter of others eating supper and vice versa which really defeats the argument of extra sleep time. Not being even offered a cup of tea / coffee in the morning is appalling. I wonder ? Do econ class pax get 2 meals ? or just a choice of one or the other ?
MarcusUK - 07/01/2010 20:34 GMT
Tends to be a continental offering whisked through in 30 minutes, barely an hr before landing, so should not make so much difference, but hard luck if you took yr meal the night before as you wont be offered one!
Also, some passengers will want to at, especially if they have slept for 5 hrs plus, & it begining a new day. It is approx 11am when you land in Sydney...
Considering some Airlines spend as a budget £4.50 for a meal for a business passenger, it is certainly not for us this withdrawl.
Cathay ex SIN D class fare via HKG is not a bad option if it is a flat bed, a good dinner (or 2) and breakfast that appeals. 777-200 with regional business class ex SIN at 18.30. Long haul 330 with flat bed ex HKG 23.55 into SYD at 12.05 +1. About an hour later than SQ evening flight ex SIN
EK now offer flat beds in Business Class on all flights ex SYD.
As mentioned in previous posts, the A380 is configured with lie-flat seats in Business Class as is the B777-300ER which operates on the Dubai-Bangkok-Sydney-Christchurch rtn route as well as on the B777-200LR which operates the new third daily (direct) service between Dubai/Sydney.
Wildgoose - 11/01/2010 05:32 GMT
Recently flew DXB-LGW in F Class on EK. Found the food disappointing. Couldn't complain about the caviar and the Moet but the entree was no better than a glorified microwaved M&S dinner.
Also, EK seem to have scaled down: no second meal was offered in F class even though the arrival time would have made a light dinner appropriate. Seat and suite were comfortable though.
there seems to be some confusion regarding the meaning of lie-flat seats: which include both flat bed (180) and angled lie flat. As far as I know all new CX long haul feature flat bed (herringbone) and EK with angled lie flat (except for a380 which is flat bed).
MarcusUK - 11/01/2010 17:18 GMT
But this post is not about finding a flat bed on another Airline, its about declining services on SQ down to Australia, the varying cabins, unclear as to what you buy, pay for, but actually experience.
It seriously affects their ranking as a 5 Star Airline, with so many post on here in the last yr, from many SIN-Australia route travellers.
We have just published a full and exclusive report on the inconsistencies in business class products offered by Asian airlines on regional routes, written by our consumer editor Alex McWhirter. This can be read at:
http://www.businesstraveller.com/news/special-report-business-class-on-asian-airlines
xxquiker - 29/01/2010 07:33 GMT
Singapore Airlines won Airline of the Year 2009 from OAG Airlines Industry. Know your facts mate. SQ also won best first class and best first class catering from Skytrax.
MarcusUK - 13/02/2010 01:26 GMT
Which Business or First Class cabin might that be, as they have 4 different versions?!!!
Just off the SQ flight in from Dubai to SIN Business class, older 777-300, but old regional seating. Flying to Sydney on the refurbished 777-300 with new regional seating again (Unfortunately) tomrw overnight.
The A380 & 773-ER have the new seats, but 1st on the refurbished 773, are the same as business on the A380.then there is the old Raffles class style on the 747 & 772-ER!
Alex's BT article, & the one coming up on this aspect of SQ's cabin services, on the same routes, means that SQ has at least 4 different cabins, & in the future will be classifying some service SIN - Australia as Regional, & the cabins will reflect that!
You simply don't know what product you are buying into these days....such a shame, though the welcoming friendly crew, always remembering your name, & the generally excellent foods & the service of the F & B, remain wonderful...
Hess963 - 14/02/2010 01:44 GMT
This 4 different types of cabins--do not make premium pax happy -- but the opposite-- they will prefer to choose another airline--or take the time and nerves to find out which aircraft will be used on that specific flight segment( I believe only SQ fans will do this ).
For me this is definitely a negative factor to vote for and choose SQ to be the best in the industry. This inconsistency is not typical SQ---but I believe the time has changed for SQ and sadly it is more in a negative aspect..
MarcusUK - 17/02/2010 01:56 GMT
Took the SQ older 773 business from DXB - SIN ast week.
The seat was not the old Raffles seat, but a cradle fabric seat. Still it was comfortable, height of the seats private, food service was dinner then breakfast next day. All together an old aircraft n style of cabin, but all fine for the 7 hr flight.
2 days later the "Dreaded" refurbished 773 from SIN -SYD, the 00.30hrs SQ231.
I stand by my comments made begining of this thread.
Lounge was sparse for food, champagne or wine has to be asked for it is not freely available. No desserts, broken coffee machines, & some stale breads, & newspapers from friday..this was sunday 11pm.
That 773 they use, the L engine is like a road drill still. 2 seats in front of engines in C, the windows vibrate, you cannot hear announcements or speak to the person next to you.
Cabin is too low set, everyone's head above the seat back, no shell of privacy, or quietness that this creates. Go to sleep n the person next to you breathes right into your face, there is no divider between the seats even when in the angled sleeping state.
The bottom & middle cushion are fine to cradle position, but to sleep a big gap appears & the bar catches you in yr hip, you slide down also through the night.
I could put a hand sidewards each gap in the side of the cushion to the shell of the seat, so drop anything n you cant retrieve it as the seat is sealed at each side & low at the front.
Staff had to use a coat hanger again to get things out for passengers!
The one meal one course again is very annoying, if you take it on take off OR have yr meal morning. This flight can be 9 hrs!
SQ have really lost the plot on routes down to Australia.
Seems with the new schedules, they have now Regionalised their routes in a set business plan i was told about last September.
I would no longer recommend them from SIN down to Australia, as others on here to BNE, MEL, ADL have also commented. The cut backs & fraying at the edges, downgrading of aircraft & of cabins & service is no longer acceptable, & it is systemic & on going from the 8 flights i have taken in the last yr.
I am finished with SQ.
MarcusUK - 24/02/2010 22:06 GMT
PLS link to the other thread on SQ as the latest BT comments from the forum, as they are directly related.
aviationfan - 06/04/2010 18:23 GMT
I also noticed the removal of some of the in-flight catering on my recent biz class return from SYD, I was quite disappointed to see the familiar Satay was gone! And adding to my growing annoyance towards SQ, who have become exceptionally arrogant of late, they have also doubled the miles needed if you want to upgrade from the UK. The reason for this is because the 773-ER and A380 provide a better onboard product than the old spacebed on the 747. While that may be the case, I am not sure it warrants doubling of the miles. And now, since the 747 does not even service the UK, any UK Krisflyer members who wish to redeem miles for upgrade now have to use twice the amount of miles for the privalege. Exactly why SQ rewardss its loyal pax in this way has made me question my loyalty totally and start looking elsewhere for a new carrier.
LondonCity - 07/04/2010 09:47 GMT
Aviationfan
Until late March one way around the higher mileage redemption was to board your SQ flight in MAN because an older version B777 was being used (so normal miles were needed).
But that option is no longer available now that the MAN-SIN service was recently upgraded to a B777-300ER.
aviationfan - 10/04/2010 09:14 GMT
Yes, I've tried this trick once. Shame it is no longer available. But the sums don't add up. E.g. You can purchase/redeem miles for a one way business class ticket from LON-SIN for only 120,000 miles. But to upgrade from a full fare economy ticket one way it is now 90,000 miles instead of only 45,000 last year. Very disappointed that I need to fly double the amount for the same reward.
MarcusUK - 10/04/2010 09:40 GMT
SQ would'nt allow SA redemptions on its new Business cabin, on the A380 /773-ER for some time now.
As Alex fesatured in his article, & post that the update for SQ, flights SIN-SYD are being changed round. The 747 has been removed, & the overnight flight a refurbished 773, with regional seating, switched to the morning service.
This means 3/4 flights to Sydney now they will not redeem ANY seats in the BMI DC program. Having ditched both now in terms of redemptions, they lost my custom & loyalty.
Neither would i pay the current fares of $4,500 return to use the new Business cabins from LHR-SYD, when the same fare was £1,900 last year.
The niggling cut backs, (sparse food in lounges, one meal on an 8 hr flight, no desserts, no starters, their "regional "Angle seats definition of SIN -Australia flights etc), SQ have had their day as far as i am concerned.
Many choices around, & other Airlines that are not being so mean in cutting small but highly noticeable & annoying services on board.
aviationfan - 10/04/2010 10:11 GMT
I very much agree Marcus, and ironically, SQ double the amount of miles needed for redemption on many sectors now due to "a better onboard product" but yet will still sell uniform J-class fares where you may end up with the lesser onboard product across the differently configured aircrafts. Makes no sense. If they can differentiate in Krisflyer miles between the onboard 747 J-class seat and the onboard A380 J-class seat then why not adopt this philosophy to the pricing???
austline - 11/04/2010 02:00 GMT
Agree with Marcus and Aviationfan.
SQ must be getting a little worried as they just sent an e-mail offering me PPS renewal if I spend SGD10K by the end of May. Have declined and will probably drop to SA Silver.
It's a pity as I was a loyal SQ pax for 13 years - Solitaire PPS and I really thought that they were the best. But cut backs on catering in the air, odd seating patterns on aircraft, lounges were you have to ask for catering and drinks and the worst FF program, 3 years expiry of miles, double miles to claim rewards in J or F on A380 or upgraded 777, which just opeate all of the flights out of Mel and Syd.
I am now a firm OW pax and enjoy QF, their lounges are great and the A380 is a really nice aircraft. The FF progam has no milage expiry and their premium desk for Platinum FF in Aust is great, nothing is too much trouble.
I really think SQ have been a little arrogant and ahve let their guard down and are paying the price.
MarcusUK - 12/04/2010 11:08 GMT
Completely agree with all above!
SQ have chosen not to listen, many customers are getting very annoyed at these small differences, cuts, with also a lack of honesty about them happening or being made. They promote still, but what you get is inconsistent & frankly not worth the current fares they are asking for. We see this with BA, TG often on here & it is starting with EK also...
There are plenty Airlines out their, all chasing the BT & leisure custom, & they are really trying to lessen their FF liabilities, all Airlines have done the same in the last few years with their programs.
I flew TG down to Sydney last eve from BKK, on a really great new A346. Same problems their as SQ no food in lounges, & in fact of the 2 cabins Business class on the overnight flight, approx 60 seats, no more than 20 were taken, 2 /8 in First!
Cabin was great food & service was also superb, but the ripped seats, like the Airline as a whole, shows, like SQ, fraying round the edges.
Those Airlines that cease to listen to their customers, & make cutbacks as BA & SQ have, are shedding loyalty, & simply there are too many Airlines with too many seats, chasing too few of us to sit in them.
It will be, & is , their loss now, but the future...?
All depends on their attitude...
100% agree! I'm sure that in fact most of the "dayflyer" don't like this seats. I even don't like it for longhaul ZRH-SIN etc.
MarcusUK - 02/08/2010 22:56 GMT
SQ still have restrictions on allowing miles to be redeemed on A380 or 777-300ER flights /the new business cabins.
It means it is almost impossible to get a reward seat out of LHR or from SIN to Sydney for eg, as most services have now been changed to the new cabins (With BMI D.Club for eg). The older aircraft remain accessible for miles mostly on the 777-200ER's, out of Amsterdam for eg.
I know the demand for Amsterdam isn't great, especially with Emirates now making daily flights taking business to The Far East & Australia.
However, it is surely time they upgraded this old aircraft & seating on this route?
It would be more fitting on the Antiques Roadshow!
LondonCity - 03/08/2010 09:57 GMT
I guess the reason that the Amsterdam product (ie the B777-200ER) hasn't been upgraded is because SIA's newest planes (ie the A380 and B777-300ER) are not only much larger but they also come with first class seating.
So I guess at the present time SIA must be questioning whether or not it could profitably fill a larger plane, bearing in mind the Dutch home market is limited in scope.
A further consideration is that there isn't the same demand for first class seating ex-Amsterdam as there is out of, say, London, Frankfurt or Paris.
MarcusUK - 06/08/2010 08:27 GMT
Sure, I accept there is no 1st demand on this route from Amsterdam- they feel...yet Emirates have recently started a 777 which is proving very successful including First from Amsterdam. Clearly you have to connect but i know several colleagues who started to fly 1st to Singapore with them.
Also, 80% of KLM's business is connecting passengers to other flights from Europe. There is an enormous loyalty of Southern & Northern Europe customers from other countries, who choose to travel via AMS. So, perhaps the Dutch small market is not the only source of custom...
AMS has far fewer Airlines than LHR towards The Far East, & KLM offers only Business in the premium market. They may well be surprised if they ran such a flight at the demand.
However, the C cabin needs to be updated, i personally wouldn't pay for his old dated cabin,you may as well fly some lesser quality Airline(China Airlines, Korean, Malaysian, Eva!) & cost, & have the same dated cabin, for up to 50% less, or fly First for the same.
