Flew on the new SQ business class seat in November from SIN-HKG return on the 777-300's and from SIN-SYD on A380.
The seat certainly is wide and service from staff was good. During the day flights between SIN-HKG, the seat only reclines to a maximum of about 25 degrees. It was very uncomfortable. It will recline to 180 degrees only if you stand up and then bring the vertical part of the seat forward! Certainly, this is fine for an overnight flight when you want to sleep.
However, for flights during the day, it is impossibly uncomfortable with the limited recline. Has anyone else had a similar experience?
CX and Emirates must be laughing.
Editors, why hasn't this been reported properly?
ChrisFreeman: the design of the Singapore Airlines seat to which you refer has been commented upon extensively and in detail in the travel press - both business and leisure.
If you have ever flown Virgin Atlantic or Air New Zealand in their business class cabins, then you'll know that they employ a similar arrangement to Singapore's 'flipper'.
Some passengers receive this style of seat extremely warmly, as it tends to afford a flatter, longer sleeping surface within a given footprint.
Others actively avoid such seats, as they do not suit their sleeping/slumping style, which demands a greater level of seat recline, most usually being a single continuous 'while-still-seated' conversion from seat to bed.
As long as there are a significant number of passengers who prefer one arrangement over the other, then it's likely that airlines will continue to develop seats which follow one style or the other.
Cathay Pacific's longhaul business class, for example, is marked down by some because it's very narrow and lacks window-access, but marked-up because it has continuous recline. On Emirates, there are two completely different seat-pitch possibilities in their A380 J cabin - quite apart from the numerous J-seat variations across their fleet at large.
I agree that some passengers may have to try each style to learn which they personally prefer, but I can assure you that the airlines themselves know precisely what their customers think and that's what drives their decision to adopt a 'flipper' or 'slumper' format.
Likewise, the travel press discusses this issue almost every time a new seat is launched.
You certainly have one up on me as I have never seen such criticisms expressed. Can you direct me to the edition of Business Traveller Asia Pacific where this has been discussed.
I find it difficult to believe that anyone on a day flight would find the seat comfortable.
"SIA has gone back to basics in terms of the mechanics of the seating – it reclines electronically, but there are no massage, or lumbar support options, and it converts manually to a bed by flipping over the seat back to connect with the ledge. As with Virgin’s business class product, this means you have to get out of the bed to convert it, but I didn’t really see that as an issue."
http://www.businesstraveller.com/tried-and-tested/airlines/singapore-airlines/flight-check-singapore-airlines-a380
Singapore Airlines A380 business class
Published: 06/10/2008 - Filed under: Tried & Tested » Airlines » Features » Tried & Tested » Tried & Tested » Airlines » Singapore Airlines »
To be fair, that article refers to having to stand up to recline the seat as not 'being an issue'. My complaint is lack of recline when seated in a normal non-sleeping position. SQ seems to be getting away with this so far without comment (and I understand that they are looking to rectify this).
In any event, I have no doubt that SQ will continue to win the J class awards. However, I'm going back to CX so at least I won't have a sore back from sitting upright!
i guess it highly depends on your own preference since i found cx's longhaul business class very tight in the herringbone setting and would opt for sq's wide seat.
one thing to note: sq and cx both have a short-haul and long-haul business class seating. since some sin-hkg flights have onwards connection to the u.s., most of the fleet will have long haul seats (which may be less comfortable for the sin-hkg leg but is highly preferable for eg. sin-hkg-sfo).
sq has just lauched a new lie-flat business class seats (and yes, it can do z position) for short haul which i think is the best in class. in comparison, cx's short haul business class seats was last redesigned nearly 10 years ago.
tarisingh - 07/12/2009 09:23 GMT
came back Business class from Brisbane a couple of weeks ago - over night from Brisbane , was asked immediately if We wanted supper or the breakfast option - I chose supper , was shocked that at breakfast was not even offered a cup of tea! (blurb in menu says they only offer one meals to allow passengers to sleep as long as possible on short flights (7.5 hours!) but not to offer teas because you have had supper tut tut SQ.
I have been a great fan of SQ for decades now - this trip (All legs) have lacked the magic touch - the crew smiled a lot but not with the sincerity I remembered and enjoyed. Watch out SQ
Thanks. I thought it was just me who was of the view that SQ's current level of service was highly overrated. Check in at Sydney and Hong Kong last month took 20 minutes because SQ were understaffed at the business class counters. Yet, SQ keeps winning awards.
I have had fantastic service in the last 12 months on CX international business from check in through to baggage collection.
Airpocket - 08/12/2009 07:33 GMT
Wouldn't it be great if SQ, as a result of declining service, actually got toppled by CX the next time the awards are given out!How would that be for a kick up the rear!
Well it was Skytrax who named Cathay Pacific Airline of the Year 2009 at the World Airline Awards 2009 ceremony...and Air Transport World named Asiana Airline of the Year 2009...Qatar got the Travel Trade Gazette Airline of the Year 2009 award, and Virgin Atlantic Cargo got the Cargo Airline of the Year 2009 award...so SQ is not winning everything! They just have good marketing spin and are trading on a long-held reputation and slight mystique. It was just OAG that named Singapore Airlines Airline of the Year 2009.
Airpocket - 08/12/2009 10:38 GMT
SQ aren't the only ones with a supposedly effective 'spin machine' at their disposal. Just look at VS. But, all the spin & marketing in the world can't help you if you're a mediocre airline with mediocre food and mediocre crew. Passengers are going to wisen up pretty quickly and will abandon you in droves.
I must admit, the recent negative publicity has put me off using them for my future trips to SE Asia and Oz. I think I might use Qatar or EK.
MarcusUK - 08/12/2009 13:26 GMT
Poor experiences on LHR-SIN-SYD return September & returning Nov.
You need to seperate the 773-ER from the 773, especially the one refurbished with Regional seating business class on the overnight from SIN - Sydney. I had to roll up a blanket to pad the top & mid cushions where the gap was when the seat was angled out. It is NOT a flat bed, & God help you if you drop anything, as you have to lie flat on the floor elbow deep underneath into the shell that is sealed from all sides to retrieve anything!
The seats are too low in the cabin, noise travels, no privacy between seats, & you can hear everything 3 rows in front of you or behind the whole flight, even a newspaper being turned. It is a badly designed cabin.
There is a considerable thread on this already on BT...
SQ have reduced meals so you EITHER get dinner or breakfast from SIN to all Australian routes, pretty stupid & it is putting many off. Desserts have been cut, the crews are presenting up-market ice cream, scooped from a large catering box in the galley, instead! This is causing continuing problems raised on here...They are treating Australian routes as regional, the same as SIN-HKG.
This is a very grave mistake as once experienced they WONT fly this seat.
I have had no explanations from the queries raised through the NSW Manager for SQ Craig, who did forward them onto Singapore.
The same foodless lounges & meal standards applied on return 2 months later so these issues have not been addressed.
I have raised these issues as in a different thread, with The Manager of SQ in NSW, in writing & directly. The issues were forwarded o Singapore...& no response has been received to either of us!
I have to say though with a long haul flight, the new A380 seat is excellent overall, but i wont be using SQ down to Australia from SIN due to te meal cuts & varying seats & 4 different business cabins they now run. U pay for one product you expect it to be there.
Perhaps, customers in Business take their own up market sandwiches when travelling SQ, so you can choose whether to eat or be hungry after a 9 hr flight, in the morning or evening.
Perhaps when SQ see & it can be seen that customers are bringing their own food to ensure of nutrition & comfort, they will wake up.
JackyLek - 08/12/2009 14:09 GMT
I just booked my ticket from LHR-SGN , and for the trip SQ want 2900£ for B777 service and 3100£ for the A380 service. But my choice was TG which only charge 2100£ . I think SQ is overpriced their product a lot and you dont get the value for the difference gap for the fare .
MarcusUK - 08/12/2009 14:18 GMT
I agree.
SQ have also had seat sales (The BT search engine is petty good a tool to use), & i bought a seat in July LHR-SIN SYD return, Business, for £1912!
This time before Xmas /New Year, all the Airlines appear to be charging high rates , even if you travel out of peak next year.
There will be many offers when sales slump in January, & good deals around, on most airlines. I certainly had a choice to travel in Sept return Nov on CX, MH EK EY for around £1800 return to Sydney, in offers.
I also gained the full miles enabling another one way back in Business, & earned added a VS Gold card in the process also!!
Hess963 - 12/12/2009 09:19 GMT
Mark regarding your recent food service experiences from SIN to Australia with SQ are very disturbing. What--whether dinner or breakfast? What is going on here! I already comment this in an other thread that I flew in June 09 from SIN to SYD and I had both services. Alright the breakfast service consists of one croissant and jam, one slice of papaya and hot beverage which appalled me how cheap it was and the lack of choices. Now you are saying that you only get one food service for a 7-8 hours flight. What is this -- SQ moving to a low cost carrier attitude? If it so--then SQ should at least inform the transiting pax in SIN to eat their dinner or similar in the lounge before their onward flight to Australia and that they only get one food service onboard. These informations and possibilities are essential for the pax's s feeling of comfort and service expectations. I understand when a lot here are angry and felt fooled by SQ.
Now it is the food cuttings, apart from the diversities of business class seats and the untypical SQ service attitude( lack of smile, more robotic..) What is going on in SQ? Has SQ finally reached the zenith?
MarcusUK - 17/12/2009 23:44 GMT
Nigel, the NSW Manager for SQ, told me that there services for SIN -Australia, are now regarded as regional! Not for an overnight 8 hr flight as far as i am concerned!
Yes, one meal even if you book the cook, u get it breakfast or as you take off on the 00.30hrs down to Sydney.But they started this almost 2 yrs ago? I got off the flight very hungry & lots of hungry fellow passengers also. An un-waraneted cutback for the pitiful amount it will save, food was always one of the star elements on SQ, but no more!
You will also find the SQ Lounge in Changai T3, has lots of food labels, but most has run out or they done have it there!
It would be a pleasant change if any editors reading the above would accurately set out the current standard of SQ service in their magazines.
MarcusUK - 18/12/2009 09:28 GMT
Yes Chris this indeed would be helpful.
BT did highlight changes to one refurbished 773 used on the 00.30hrs flight down to Sydney each day, prior to it coming into service.
Varying aircraft mean on the same route, you can have the old style Raffles (747), new Business (A380/773-ER), or the "regional Business seats, 773 /A333.
This seriously affects flights from SIN - SYD/ BNE/ PER/ ADL/ MEL.
Completely different cabins, space, comfort & sleeping capabilities.
However, I Don't consider an overnight 8 hr flight to Australia as regional, & that configuration is as many have noted, unsuitable. I am avoiding, & would not pay a premium fare for that cabin, or ever use it down to Australia again.
Amongst frequent flyers themselves, there's a tendency to attach a reputation to a carrier based on what's often a very narrow field of experience - a few routes, a few aircraft types. It's arguably made worse in the UK thanks to the proliferation of carriers' flagship routes which touch down in London, and which therefore generate a high proportion of UK-reported experiences of those carriers.
The fact is, however, that many of these carriers employ extremely variable service standards on their other routes Worldwide - whether that's in terms of the soft or the hard product - and yet those carriers' evangelists often seem unaware of this.
So, quite apart from the practical implications of a single publication having the space to cover all the different service standards of even the main carriers on each of their routes, you also have a situation where a large contingent of the readership wouldn't actually be all that keen on having their loyalties challenged, nor reading about routes they rarely, if ever, patronise.
Add all that together and a 'Singapore Expose' doesn't strike me as a particularly commercial proposition.
That said, I personally think that the 'blind' reporting of (regularly unwarranted) reputations is fairly confined to the mainstream, non-specialist press. It seems to me that, for the most part, publications like BT are reasonably up-front in terms of reporting the service standards as they relate to a particular route - without implicit or explicit suggestion that it's possible to extrapolate those service standards network-wide. Indeed, they're the ones most likely to break news like (or remind of) the fact that SQ's MAN-SIN service will no longer be non-stop from March 28 2010.
It must also be remembered, quite apart from frequent flyers' own tendencies to laud, say, SQ based on quite limited experience of their routes, that flyers appreciate very different things. Once again, I was discussing with a friend the Virgin/NZ flipper seat the other night, in comparison to other carriers' fully-reclining versions. He's absolutely of the opinion that the VS/NZ product suits his preferences perfectly. I'm absolutely of the opinion that it does not suit mine. We're both quite right, of course.
So, since SQ's flights between SIN and Oz are often quite short overnighters, perhaps they have plenty of passenger research to suggest that a single meal service is appreciated to afford the greatest amount of sleep - like British Airways' Sleeper Service.
Or, perhaps, it is indeed simple cost-cutting.
What's incontrovertible is that Singapore Airlines themselves make no mention of some of their hard and soft product variations in any of their own publications - online or in hard copy. There again, why would they? As many have posted here, they compare unfavourably to their headline-grabbing flagship products.
That then is one of the significant benefits of this forum and others like it; not to bash a carrier, not to blindly laud one, but to extend the terms of reference of the publication and allow travellers on a wide number of routes to impart their experience. If individuals do so regularly and consistently, then other readers can effectively learn about other posters' likes, dislikes, demands and needs, and align them with their own. Ultimately then, we can read their posts and instinctively know whether we personally are likely to react and respond similarly - and hopefully avoid the missed expectations like those experienced above.
Now, none of that's to say that BT and others couldn't expand their route coverage, nor even that they couldn't commission a generic feature into at least hard product variations. I'd almost guarantee, however, that some of the carriers that would come out 'best' in such a comparison in terms of consistency, would be ones that often generate some of the most vehement negative postings here.
You can't please 'em all!
Continentalclub,
what an excellent well thought out post. Perhaps others will take note and apply some of your sound logic before they comment on the posts of other contributors.
Safe travels everyone,
Jonathan
