[BAorBUST01]

I used to be a supervisor for BMI in Edinburgh for many years, of course nearly every winter was the same, we had delays, sometimes long sometimes not, but what used to amaze me was one flake of snow and ALL BA flights were cancelled! now our check in area was next door to BA and of course If I was near the *Gold check in Desk (desk 38 for those of you who remember it!), I would often hear the BA check in Dragons (and yes some of them who were employed by BA then were as snooty as they come) would often say sorry all flights cancelled go and see BMI! whilst things have likely improved just a tad, as BA no longer employ thier own staff, but Servisair now employ many old BMI agents, BA still cannot run an operation very well. its all very well for SM to keep saying they did really well, try seeing things from the inside, and BA cancels for really no reason!

infact whatever excuses you may want to invent, the reasons are simple, and there are 2. ( I know this as my housemate was a BA Manager at EDI), they cancel because:

1) it saves them money, on fuel, crews, compensation etc blaming weather as an exceptional circumstance, which it is, if delayed they have to provide food vouchers , they did not like providing anything!

2) and believe it or not the MAIN reason why BA cancel so Many flights Year roundis, rather than delay a flight they will ALWAYS cancel, as it makes theyre online performance stats look like they are the most punctuale airline, so on paper they are always a safe bet, in reality….well anyone daft enough to give BA theyre money knows how poor the service is,

BA OTP is amazing , thats IF your flight Operates!

[TominScotland]

From BBC website (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25498335)

“0105: Tim Christie, Clapham Junction texts: Just back from Gatwick. Was meant to fly at eight thirty am. We had no communication all day from easyJet as to anything that was happening. When our flights were finally cancelled we struggle to find any easyJet employees to offer assistance. It really was a disorganised shambles, a disaster from start to finish, we only wanted information and to travel ultimately to Belfast. Tonight we are not home with close family and loved ones, but I guess we have our health and life goes on.”

[LuganoPirate]

Moral must be, “if you can get away a few days before Christmas, do so”.

Wonder what happened to all those who flew to AMS or MXP to connect with their BA long haul flights back via LHR? A few nightmares on nightmares I suspect!

[Matinée-Allstars]

@cityprofessional 12/12/13 12:53

I use an 0800 buster number which means I can dial an 0800 number from my mobile as part of the included calls

Google “0800 buster”

or I use 0333 555 8800 then your 0800 number

You can also pre-programme into your phone by using a comma between the dialup num and the num to be called

0333 555 8800 , 0800 number
(you may need a different symbol of different phones, this is for an iPhone)

Doesn’t answer all the issues you raise of course….but hopefully helpful

[AllOverTheGaff]

I’d like to extend a personal thanks to Easyjet for getting me home from Bristol on the 23rd, conditions were pretty hairy, very high winds and indeed, there were other planes not landing at Bristol and diverting, nevertheless, the inbound from Amsterdam which was then headed for EDI made it, and we got home with a sideways landing.

And given how often I read of “I’m only saying to balance”….perhaps one shouldn’t single out EZY when BA were cancelling flights at LCY, LHR and indeed, the below selection of quotes from the chaos at LGW which EZY are being slated for:

“George Watts added: “Didn’t think I would be spending my Christmas Day trying to locate my luggage because @British_Airways staff were so poor!”

“Geoff Bailey wrote: “Appalled at British Airways from Gatwick. Flight arrived at Venice but no bags for anyone! No info. No help.”

“Victoria Stearman Tweeted: “Hi BA, thanks for leaving our bags at Gatwick, no warm clothes for the snow and no Xmas presents!”

I saw on the news that Easyjet were flying on Christmas Day to try and get passengers home, they’d asked staff to work and all-sorts…..in the interests of balance do we know if BA did this extraordinary measure?

And in the interests of balance I was stranded in London for 3 days when we had that snow in 2010, sat in upper class Virgin Atlantic bound for SFO for 8 hours and never moved an inch, did get a skin full of champagne, dinner and watched a couple of movies, then was de-planed into what was actual chaos – the one and only time in my life I’ve witnessed actual chaos, finally rescheduled my flight for 3 days forward and stayed a few nights at a JW Marriot with no clothes, got my bags returned when I got home from a 2 week vacation.

And the last time I had shocking customer service from an airline for a cancelled flight? Good ole BA from LHR – ABZ where I waited over 2 hours in a line of people all wanting to know what was going on to be met with indifference and a smug “I don’t care” apathy from what they laughingly refer to as their customer service desk – I got the train and got home arriving back at my gaff some 14 hours after I left the hotel in London, and thanks to that episode, East Coast have now had thousands of pounds in revenue that would normally have gone to BA.

So, EZY didn’t react perfectly, nor did BA, nor in my experience have Virgin, but one has to accept that when you travel at this time of year, in the UK, that we are all subject to mother nature and there is very little can be done when these severe weather fronts move in. When I did my 3 nights in London I took care of it all myself and didn’t look to the airline to feed me, clothe me or put me up in a hotel, it was what it was.

Merry Christmas all.
AOTG.

[SimonS1]

I heard on the radio that the CAA are considering an investigation into the way the airport handled events on Christmas Eve.

[FormerlyDoS]

Good. Although I like LGW and easyJet, the shambles needs to be investigated and action implemented to ensure no repeat.

[Andrew66]

As some of you know my wife works at LGW , as a goon as some of you politely refer to them , and obviously I have been told of the fiasco that has happened , there are some things I can’t even post as they are that serious , on what I know it’s amazing that no one was injured in the mayhem that ensued , I actually am very concerned about her safety in her workplace , so here’s my opinions .
1 the LGW management team have just put their heads in hands and hope it is all going to go away , it’s like they’re having a bad dream . No communication to the airport workers , just hoping that some sort of ideas and plan will work out , no clear strategy to deal with the severe problems . They should have just shutdown the NT and compromised with airlines which flights would be able to depart from the south , they should have taken charge of the situation instead of letting airlines decide what they felt like doing .

2 . BA cancelled flights and had staff at the info desk , whether they were much use depends on your own opinion , whilst EZY just delayed flights , pushed everyone into the departure lounge and then cancelled the flights , they kept passengers waiting in there for ages with no staff to give out info , eventually it became mob rule in the dept lounge , Boots just closed up their doors as people were just stealing drinks and sandwiches from the shelves , airport staff were just being verbally abused and threatened because passengers were left with no info from their airline ( EZY ) immigration came to a standstill as passengers were being de controlled as their flight was cancelled and yet EZY were still piling passengers through into the dept lounge . All control and order had been lost .

3 . You might see the photo in the daily mail of the policeman standing on the info desk trying to restore calm , what you don’t see is that out of camera shot another armed policeman with his weapon drawn to try and get the mobbing crowd under control and realise that order needed to be restored , the situation was that serious !

The LGW management team seriously let down its staff and placed them in danger , I know staff are disappointed and angry at no presence on the ” shop floor ” to deal with the problems , a similar incident happened at the south a few weeks ago so they should have been prepared and more organised .
Secondly EZY just kept on processing passengers which caused absolute mayhem in the dept lounge and they are responsible for causing this especially when having no staff to advise what was happening and eventually cancelling flights which led to more frustration .

But in all fairness as long as the share price goes up , and the Canadian Teachers pension fund builds up nicely why bother about providing facilities and services for the staff and passengers ?

[balover]

First of all, I would just like to say crew hours are a legal thing. i
If crews do not comply, they can be arrested,loose their license etc. The flight can even be diverted by military escort if needs be! They CANNOT be changed, as the airlines wish. The middle eastern carriers are given a little more lenience by their governments, but not much more… As there are international minimum ICAO standards to comply to, if you want to be allowed to fly anywhere worth while. (A certain airline which might rhyme with Bryan Flare, may soon be getting in trouble for this! But I am just speculating/hoping.) If you feel this is Libellous tell me to remove it quickly!

Secondly, just a thought, if BA cancel an average of 20% of its flights on a BAD day, that is about 90 to 100 flights… not great for thousands of people missing out on their trip… But for Virgin to cancel the same number would mean that pretty much ALL their flights would not operate! So the only reason, I think we are hearing about this, is because of the shear number of people effected by these delays! Not the respective ratios, I would have thought that all the other airlines operating out LHR have delays and cancellations to the same magnitude as BA. I actually think the amount of planes BA gets in the sky is really quite good! NATS are not really thinking about loyalty to airlines at a crisis time. They just want to get as many aircraft in the sky as quickly and safely as possible. Because of wake turbulence and safety spacing, they cannot be picky as to who they send up!

The reasons why EasyJet do not have so many problems is:

1) Gatwick is a much simpler airport to taxi around and you can more aircraft to the RWY QUICKLY to takeoff in a good spell of weather QUICKLY.

2) Aircraft at Gatwick are generally short haul, meaning you do not need as bigger spacings for wake turbulence.

3) The airspace is a lot less congested, only CAT3 airspace to LHR/LCY’s CAT1.

Finally SAFETY! That good old friend of aviation, it is extremely difficult and unsafe to get such a high VOLUME of aircraft into the sky quickly, in bad weather. Especially in the congested and hectic environment that is LHR.

To sign off, 99% of the aircraft landing at LHR will be CATIII B equipped, although, the CATIII feature cannot be used too often, as crews legally have to manually land the aircraft 99% of the time. You are only meant to do a full Autoland once a month, crews have to do a MINIMUM of 3 manual landings EACH a month. If you’re a junior second officer, you are going to have to get on well with your captain for him to give you more than your minimum amount. (Privilege of rank!)

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

As an aside – not defending Easyjet in the situation that happened, but as we move to more automated systems at airports – such as check in online and so forth then when things go wrong there simply isn’t the presence to correct things. Where there is a 100% requirement to print boarding passes before you get to the airport then those without luggage just head straight for security. I’m not sure how security would then decide who to let through (easily) as they will not know who/what flights are operating – so people will get airside even if perhaps they shouldn’t get through.

And being British we like to say how bad things were – they have been just as bad – if not worse at other airports around the world when things have gone wrong. Either way hopefully LGW / EZY will learn from the situation and fingers crossed will do better next time there is a problem.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ TimFitzgeraldTC – 27/12/2013 12:43 GMT

You are entirely correct. The rather chippy propensity in this country, which is to denigrate the place whenever anything goes wrong, whatever the reason, is truly remarkable.

To put things into some perspective, when Snr Management and I were in Beijing in 2012 – just prior to the London Olympics – the place was subject to some of the heaviest and most concentrated rainfall for over sixty years. We had a small river flowing through the lobby of our hotel for much our stay. Little reported in the UK at the time but such was the inadequate drainage along parts of the new inner ring roads around Beijing (some 500m from our hotel), that some underpasses were quickly inundated. Over 80 people died – drowned in either their cars or in buses because they could not get out in time. The locals were contrasting the preparedness and capability of their emergency and rescue services with those in Hong Kong – and western cities – and complaining vociferously. Oh, and PEK was subject to wide-scale cancellations and chronic delays.

Many thousands of people have been substantially inconvenienced and many holiday plans have been ruined across not just the UK but across other parts of NW Europe as well. It’s happened to me in the past and it is grating because there is almost nothing you can do beyond a “grin and bear it” mindset. However, very few people have died as a result of the storms across the UK. For this, we might wish to be grateful.

[BigDog.]

Rather than denigrating methinks it is a case of becoming increasingly intolerant eg Airport noise is less than days of the Comet yet our tolerance nowadays is far less with noise complaints far higher.

We have a higher sense of entitlement, greater ability to complain to the world (tweeting) and higher expectation of service (eg NHS) – all in all we are more self-centred or maybe more aware that the powers that be were always that way inclined/self serving and demand equality.

Time for some Zen Koan methinks.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ BigDog. – 27/12/2013 18:36 GMT

Zen Koan. Errr, right….

[SimonS1]

I agree Anthony. Sadly my experience of business travellers is that there are those who are so far up their own backsides with self importance that the first question in times like this is “how many Avios will I get” (*other loyalty programmes are available).

[balover]

I think maybe this has got a little off topic…

[Author]

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