[KarlMarx]

MrMichael – 07/01/2015 06:14 GMT

In answer to your question about star rating, with the caveat that I only travel short haul business class.

BA was 4 star, until the reduction of legroom in Club Europe, now I would rate it as a 3 star, which is why I have changed to Swiss, which remains 4 star.

In hotel comparison terms

Swiss = Marriott
BA = Premier Inn

There is nothing wrong with Premier Inns, which offer an adequate level of accomodation at a certain price point, but I do not see why I (or more accurately my employer) should pay Marriott prices for this level of product/service.

[rferguson]

An interesting little piece in the London Evening Standard yesterday regarding onboard products of BA vs the Gulf co’s.

http://www.standard.co.uk/business/business-news/uk-airlines-in-battle-for-routes-as-budget-carriers-and-luxury-flying-suites-take-off-9960200.html

[BrotherJim]

KarlMarx, to use your analogy, I think what many here are saying is BA is offering Premier Inn service, which as you say is more than ok, but charging Marriott prices.

Though the fact people continue to fly them, with this knowledge says a lot more about the customers than it does about the airline. There are choices of course.

[AllOverTheGaff]

MrMichael – 06/01/2015 20:21 GMT
I think with BA you get staff that try hard, some try hard and fail miserably but they try.

I cannot agree with that statement in the least. It has been my own experience in flying with BA that it is most unusual to get a good service on board or on the ground. The one and only area where BA could (and should) potentially beat all the much better airlines with direct aisle access/chauffeur cars/fine dining/IFE systems out there is on service. Regrettably, it is my experience that their staff do not try hard, and that is something of an understatement. Many is the flight with them when I sit with an empty glass and a petted lip berating myself for falling for the cheap price point whilst the crew hide in the galley. I would most certainly concede that BA have reduced their prices lately, I’ve found them extremely competitive on several routes I fly, but to be honest, I’m now at the stage of not wanting a cheap deal as I know it will be an experience I won’t enjoy.

I get the impression that BA have a genuine desire to be great….on the ground and in the air…and most staff are actually proud to be a part of BA.

Again, I cannot see where you get that from? Indifferent service, poor food (and it really is), crowded lounges and a hard product which now lags behind practically all major carriers, they’ve innovated nothing in the past 10 years and launched shiny new aircraft with average old and inconvenient seating. From my point of view, they’ve become mediocre at best and their overall offering shows a desire to save money, nothing else.

You can chalk me up to a “BA basher” if you will, but I’ve grown tired of giving them chance after chance, even on my last flight with them last week I went in with low expectations and even those weren’t met, is it really so difficult to have basic manners?

We all know BA are capable of delivering a decent service, any airline is, but it is my experience (one which seems to be replicated by many posters on this forum) that BA no longer care about their customer, but have a steely eye on their margin to satisfy their patient and un-trusting share-holders.

Where BA also win is with their Avios programme, their routes from LHR and their prices, but I have to take exception that they “try hard” or that they have a desire to be great neither of these statements ring true with me based on many years of disappointing flights and service.

This past year I have flown with EK on 14 1st class sectors, Virgin Atlantic, Cathay, JAL & AA long haul, short haul I’ve done countless Easyjet’s and indeed, some BA’s to London. I can say with clarity that the only airline I’ve felt short changed on was with BA – I feel it in the tired product, the poor service and the on-board offerings – be that for a drink, to watch a movie or to have some ‘food’, even though the BA price point was a lot less I see that as little consolation as I sit with an empty glass, a dodgy stomach and squinting at the tiny screen – the of course the old chestnut of climbing over some random’s limbs….

Flying back from JFK in 2013 upstairs on a lovely old 747 I had my best ever BA flight, the IFE was just as bad, the seat just as inconvenient and the food every bit as average as it always is, however, the service was awesome, and I mean as good, if not better, than any airline I’ve flown. What a great shame that this is one of the only BA flights I can recall which was memorable for the right reasons, and for balance, of the 14 1st class EK flights I had this year, only one of them fell short of excellent.

Rgds.
AOTG.

[MrMichael]

@ Alloverthegaff, thanks for your considered response. As I said in my humble submission, it was my experience and my expectations that I refer to as a BA supporter. I have never had the pleasure of travelling first class on any airline, so could not comment on first class service and facilities. I travel probably 85% economy and 15% business.

@Karlmarx, OK, lets put BA a 3 star and downgrade IB to 2*. Not bothered to be honest. The main point I was making was that in my view BA are far superior to IB on the same route, often with the same aircraft, and at the same price…and the same company!

I did ask the cabin member seeing pax off the aircraft if they were proud to work for IB. She did not actually answer but looked at me as if she did not undewrstand the question, although her English had been fine 30 minutes previous.

[seasonedtraveller]

To add a slightly different perspective – for 20 years, I worked for a company who’s travel policy was to use Star Alliance carriers & therefore, I was top tier with SAS, BMI & Lufthansa for many years.
The travel policy was economy for all flights – although I managed to use BMI ‘Gold upgrade vouchers’ a few times across to ORD.

I never had the opportunity to fly my National airline, BA (despite the fact that my best friend was a BA Captain out of LHR).

When I joined my present employer, the travel policy was much more open & I genuinely looked forward to getting Gold with BA. I got to Gold within 6 months and got 3,600 tier points in my first year (all economy or premium economy & all with BA).

I am still a relatively new flier with BA (3 years now at Gold) and have just retained Gold within a 3 month period & will probably get offered the fabled GGL status very soon since I now travel in CW.

I am still Diamond with SAS (double Gold tier requirments).

So, I guess my point is this – having actually looked forward to flying with BA for a good number of years, I find it to be a very disappointing experience overall even when compared to say, USAirways on the same route.
This really troubles me because I honestly thought BA were ‘La creme de la creme’ rather than the ‘sour milk’. experiences of late.

We have a chioce, I know, but I don’t want all my eggs in the Star ‘A’ basket.

[rferguson]

Many will know that I am far from a BA apologist.

But it always baffles me when I read posts from the same people that dislike BA immensely, do not enjoy their service, feel ripped off – yet continue to fly them.

OK….I get that some people will not have an option such as locked into a corporate account. But for those that do…..why? Every BA destination it flies to from LHR has competition – whether it be a direct or indirect flight.

Why continue to choose BA over a competitor that you deem has a superior flying experience?

I just don’t get it, sorry.

As for the OP’s flight from PHX – yes sounds like a disaster. But there was obviously something going on behind the scenes there. I can honestly say in fifteen years of working longhaul flights with BA that I have never ever worked on one where we did not do pre departure drinks or papers. Yes, sometimes it happens that people board very late and in the rush of getting the door closed and the cabin ready for departure they may be missed. It happens. We are stretched on board. Unfortunately BA does not have the luxury of paying a group of Indian or Sri Lankan economic migrants a wage of peanuts and thus able to put more on each aircraft.

Everything about that flight including the time it took to get the first drinks service and meal out tells me that there was a non-normal issue on it. Perhaps a crew member had gone ill in PHX stretching the almost limited number even more or something else. In such a situation we, as crew, would do all possible to minimise the impact to our passengers. Some are better at this than others. Does this mean this kind of service is acceptable? Absolutely not.

A more likely scenario – I believe PHX has recently changed to a three class service on the 747 with old F effectively becoming CW. Again, this has resulted in a chop of the crew numbers on board as well as new service routines likely that the crew on that flight were experiencing for the first time. Again, it doesn’t mean that an ‘attitude’ from a crew member is acceptable. But on the flip side it also doesn’t mean that BA crew in general are poor across the board as others have implied on this thread.

Does anyone think we enjoy when someone asks is they can have the cheese AND the dessert and we have to reply ‘sorry, one or the other’. Absolutely NOT and it should not be like that. Does anyone think we enjoy handing out pathetic plastic punnets of fruit in Business Class for breakfast? No – it is an utter embarrassment. Add to this the daily battle of working on old aircraft, IFE that is out of date, a generation of seating that is no longer really acceptable and I can assure you, it isn’t an easy environment to work in. Especially when our employer then goes and does stupid little things like taking the earplugs and eye shades OUT of the washbags. Yes, the two most essential items you will need for a night flight.

So – vote with your wallet.

[Agamemnon]

Returning to the original post, I think a lot depends on the crew and legacy vs non.

Had a really bad flight in CW upper deck to SFO in November with the attitude of the two stewardesses being ‘can’t be bothered’ especially when I had a problem with the IFE – rolling their eyes, dismissing my queries etc. When I flew to LAX a week later, the CSD came and did their usual GC holder post-take off chat and I mentioned it. She asked if I had complained afterwards and I said no and she insisted that I do so.

By comparison the LAX flight on the A380 was superb and exactly what you’d expect. I did write to the BAEC and got 12k Avios as compensation, but I’d rather have had a smooth and trouble-free flight and not have had to complain in the first place.

[seasonedtraveller]

rferguson – I realise that you are not a BA apologist. I have always read your posts with interest given that you are employed by BA. My best mate was a BA Captain for many years until retirement & even he didn’t have much good to say about “modern day BA”). However, to answer your question above;

There are many reasons, which include but by no means an exhaustive list;

Departure airport (for example with BA I can travel from LBA)
Arrival airport
Departure and arrival times
Transfer times and connections
Ticket price – many of us have to show best value & have annual travel budgets – when BA have a sale on it’s a big incentive to book with them & our travel Manager makes us VERY aware of this.
Colleagues choice of route / airline
Colleagues arrival time at destination
Alliance benefits
Company benefits
Plus, some sort of misplaced loyalty which I can’t even explain myself 🙂

And, just having read your last paragraph, the answer is no, I’m very sure you don’t enjoy what BA has done recently, to devalue the experience (including removing earplugs and shades which make NO sense to me whatsoever) – I know it cant be easy for you.

They’ve even removed the flower from the loo’s……. what next, Izal hard toilet paper or perhaps the cut up used newspapers that were the staple of outside toilets in the 1950’s….

PS – I’m on BA295 on Saturday – hope it’s a good one.

[AllOverTheGaff]

rferguson – 08/01/2015 10:36 GMT
Why continue to choose BA over a competitor that you deem has a superior flying experience?

Cannot speak for anyone else, but in my own case, this particular flight was some £1700.00 (total) less expensive than the next closest rival flying to / from MCO – so I took it on the chin that I’d be flying BA, my first long-haul with them since November 2013. As stated earlier, I’ve flown a great deal again in 2014 and not bothered even pricing BA.

So, I don’t fly with them unless there is a compelling reason – I thought £1.7K was reasonably compelling, but I very much doubt it will happen again.

What baffles me is how they can continue to offer the product and service they do when we hear that they have ‘secret shoppers’ and have a host of ‘customer focus groups’. Well over a year had lapsed between my BA flights with the net result the same, customer disappointment.

Rgds.
AOTG.

[shalene]

I haven’t been offered a newspaper for at last my last eight flights. The food is on the decline. I think the staff issue is a pot luck, they are either going to be lovely or rubbish. The head stewardess asked which option I wanted and I asked for beef, she said most people wanted beef so I had to choose something else. I responded that I didn’t eat chicken curry and there was something in the vegetarian option that I was allergic to. To say she was furious with me was an understatement, I did get a beef meal and then ended up sitting in the toilet for the rest of my flight and a friend of mine told me that they probably spiked my food with a liquid laxative as it is a favourite trick when you PO a stewardess! (she was cabin crew for a few years)
On the way back the food was so poor there was nothing on the menu that I could eat so waited for the snack bar to open only to find that it was a manky banana, couple of apples and a couple of sandwich wraps that I detest. I could not wait to get my breakfast and as I said I just wanted the bacon roll she said she would be back with it in a minute. I reminded her again and again until the captain came over the tannoy to say cabin crew seats for landing. So all in all a terrible couple of flights!

[Stowage222]

RFerguson – I see that the eye shades and ear plugs have returned to the new CW wash bags currently available from outstations. LHR will no doubt follow suit once stocks are depleted. So someone is finally listening to the crew?

Now all we need to do is wait to see when the CW flower/air freshener combo are put back in the loos – another victim of cutbacks last year! Getting fed up with the smell of urine in there and the coffee bag solution is just naff.

[rferguson]

Shalene I seriously do not think it would be worth the CSD’s job to poison your food. I don’t know of any crew that carry around a secret supply of liquid laxative ready to vent their fury on passengers. I would imagine the CSD was just as frustrated as you were at the lack of beef.

Club Kitchen items for return flights all contain the same ‘ambient’ items that are loaded ex LHR. This includes the cadburys chocolate boxes, crisps, nuts, biscuits, popcorn. Fruit and perishable items such as sandwiches are uplifted downroute dependent on the route length and time of day of flight. But absolutely, the end result seldom matches the impression given in the menu.

AOTG the market will continue to dictate how successful BA is with it’s premium products and also how soon they will likely make any change to them. I was able to find the traffic figures for DEC 14 versus DEC 13. Premium traffic was up 3.4%. Revenue per passenger km up 4.1%. The ‘customer voice’ figures relate to NOV:
Intend to recommend +5pts
Intent to travel BA again +6pts
Overall satisfaction +7pts
Value for money +3pts
Net Promotor Score +8%.

Until passengers avoid BA in numbers and reverse these figures I don’t unfortunately see a lot changing. And I will still be handing out plastic tubs of fruit.

Yes stowage you are right about the washbags. It’s now returned to how it once was – unisex washbags with eye masks and ear plugs INSIDE. That would have definitely been driven by the number of complaints.

[SimonS1]

As always rferguson your comments are spot on.

People moan about BA but continue to use them. so they must have something going for them.

I see for example our old friend Binman is active on FlyerTalk these days (or maybe it’s just a coincidental name). I seem to remember he was the classic case – every BA flight he took seem to involve some problem aired at length on here, but still using them it seems and still unhappy.

Personally I avoid BA, partly because I don’t like T5 and I think there are better choices that suit me. But as you rightly say there is always a choice, if you have a succession of bad experiences then make a change.

[openfly]

2 LHR-CPT-LHR recently. On all sectors the Club Kitchen was completely empty….apart from bottles of water in the chiller.! I was offered the unhealthy goodies in the WTP box. Is it possible that the crew are keeping the Club nibbles back for themselves??

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