[MartynSinclair]

VK, stop being so patronizing.

I choose to fly BA not Royal Jordanian and in business and not first (whether using airmiles, BA Miles or cash).

I am aware of the current BA offer ex Aus as I was aware of the Thai Airwars offer for Gold card holders ex Thailand (star alliance)

Yes I am flexible with my dates, but I still find the BA availabilty far more restricted than most other airlines.

To give BA some credit though, they do release seats inside a 1 – 2 week departure window, but that is insufficient time for me to arrange my trips.

[VintageKrug]

What a ridiculous and ungrateful post, MS.

I spent quite some time helping you out, and you call that patronising (and Americanised the spelling, to boot).

It seems odd to me that you advocate compromise in other more serious situations, but are simply not prepared to compromise when your own personal plans are affected. That speaks volumes.

It is indeed tough to find availability on that route, but I have set out very clearly how it IS possible to do so, outside sale periods; and you call that “patronizing”.

BA has between 48-70 Club seats per day to BKK, many of which will be through fares to SYD, and with such tight margins it doesn’t seem unreasonable to earn revenue where possible; airlines aren’t charities.

BAEC has partners for exactly this eventuality, it’s not BA’s fault if you choose not to book early, or cannot book late, haven’t enough miles for F or refuse to fly on Finnair/Cathay/RJ/Qantas (which all, by most accounts, have a good to excellent offering).

Perhaps this will help you with your issues:

http://www.absolutely-uk.com/eric/stressing.htm

[MartynSinclair]

In your own words VK “Balderdash”.

Below are quotes from your post detailing your own experiences of BA Miles.

“So it really is possible to redeem, even on the most sought after routes/dates”.

“The fact is it has never been easier to redeem miles online”

“My experience is that I have always been able to fly in a premium cabin and within a day of my preferred date, to and from a combination of popular US, Middle and Far Eastern destinations”

“I have made literally dozens of long haul premium cabin redemptions/upgrades on BA in the past few years and, with some planning, have ALWAYS been able to fly within one day of my preferred date”

I make no apologies for harping on to what Disgusted feels I am obsessed with, but if seating is that tight on a prime route and again your quote VK

“and with such tight margins it doesn’t seem unreasonable to earn revenue where possible; airlines aren’t charities”

then the discussion about 60B and whether this seat should be used for revenue/BA Miles redemptions, is very valid. On my return trip from BKK this week, the seat was used by the Captains wife and yes there were non operating crew using the upstairs bench seats as well. Obviously the pilots do not need the seat for crew rest so it should be released for revenue becasue as you quite rightly point out, the airline is not a charity.

Sometimes VK, despite your very valid and useful knowledge and your extremely eloquent use of the English language (American or English) as well superb support for things British, you seem to be so out of touch with reality, its as if you live on another planet.

Have a great Sunday and I hope Mr or Mrs VintageKrug (or even Maid of VintageKrug, depending which one you have) has cooked you a nice Sunday roast and you are able to take a long afternoon nap, cos you appear to need one.

…..and BA Miles are still hard to use, longhaul, eastbound………………!

[VintageKrug]

As I have in the past had the humility to take the advice of others more expert than myself, I do indeed get to use the miles I accumulate through my work and personal spend to redeem all over the planet, on the terms you set out in my quoted posts.

During 2011 the VintageKrug household will be have redeemed flights to the equivalent of about 750,000 BA Miles, including flights on those harder to find Eastern routes, so I do know something about this matter.

What a shame your intransigence will confine you to Yangon Airlines in steerage:

http://image63.webshots.com/163/9/41/61/390194161hQhSlx_fs.jpg

Don’t forget your sleeping bag, as frostbite is never fun.

[MartynSinclair]

VintageKrug – you advise the forum that you are easily able to use your BA Miles on BA (your quotes are all above, just from this thread), then the answer you give to those finding difficulty is to either book a year in advance or use another partner airline.

In addition you feel staff /friends and family of staff shoud take priority over revenue passengers.

I accept that passengers need to compromise and be flexible, but I dont believe that loyal passengers should have to compromise by having to fly another airline. I earn my miles primarily on BA and choose to spend them on BA. I dont think it unreasonable that at any time, there ought to be availabilty inside 12 months. Otherwise it could be considered that the BA Miles scheme is not fit for purpose.

Thanks for the picture of the Krug household on their annual holiday. Presume you were the photographer as you seem to be missing from the picture.

[Binman62]

What is clear to those with eyes to see it is that there are not the opportunities to gain redemption seats to the East (where incidentally I earn them) unless.

A You are able to drop everything at a moment’s notice and take a flight this week on your own..

B. You can apparently do so only by booking 350 days ahead.

It may be that you can get dozens of seats in club or First 350 days out but I have never seen them and given I have been looking assiduously of late I think they are myth.

In any event all you will get is a solo seat as there is nothing available for couples or for those wishing to use the hard earned 241 vouchers.
If seats are not available due to sales then there is no chance they will ever be available as BA have become the DFS of the airline world with sale after sale after sale. If it is not the UK then it will be Europe, then OZ, then SIN, then the USA, before it starts again in the UK. The next UK offering is not that far away and even now they have specials, though again not for UK based travellers unless you count single routes at obscure times. The sale issue is a red herring.

Of course if you are a gold card holder with elevated status, then there are other options available to you and of course that is only as it should be. But having such access does not mean that mere silver and lower gold mortals have the same benefits. It is indeed deeply patronising to lecture those of us who spend thousands a year of our own money only to find BA shift the goal posts.

The situation across the Atlantic this winter and spring started this forum. One would have reasonably expected that with the capacity seats to the USA would be easier. Not a bit of it.

I have secured seats in First and for 4 passengers. It was not however my first or indeed even my 5th choice. I was happy to split and even to travel to or from different gateways.

In the past I have generally been able to get seats in spring/winter to the west costs in a premium cabin, usually my first choice route but being flexible with dates. I normally book Oct/Nov but as you can see as far back as September nothing was available. At the time sales were cited as a reason but nothing has changed on that route since. Almost daily scanning of routes throughout Sept and Oct finally resulted in 4 seats to a gateway on separate days. The efforts required was considerable and frankly beyond what I would consider reasonable.

I have looked at other routes, South America , South Africa for example but they are much like OZ SIN and BKK with nothing available for much of the year and what is available never has effective returns.

Like Martyn has said I earn miles on BA because I spend money on BA. I want to use those miles on BA not Royal Jordanian, an airline I would not choose to pay to fly on. Nor am I happy to pay more to fly on a partner and lose my 241 vouchers simply because BA have rigged the game. I would cite the kangaroo route as an example of this and I cannot understand why there is not free access to QF / BA seats when the revenues are shared. If I want to use miles on QF I must pay more…why!!??

It is entirely reasonable that earned mileage should have adequate opportunities to be spent. It is entirely unreasonable that having given away too many miles for credit cards and incentives as well as selling them directly to the public, that an airline then limits the ability to use them.

If airlines had to carry the liability on their books for the miles that are out there they would soon change their practices.

A quick check today has found that BA have 4 seats in Club World currently available almost every day of the year to ….yes you guessed it……. Cairo, Tripoli and Bahrain.

Martyn it seems that aside from being flexible and requiring a miracle you now also have to factor in civil unrest. Perfect if you are a BBC or Sky reporter but pretty useless for the rest of us!.

[CaptainMe]

Mr Sinclair…..I am very interested in your comments about aircraft captains ”not being senior managers”, in your post in early January. Rather vitreolic.

You may not be aware, but aircraft are the mainstay core of an airline business. Yes you are totally correct that I ”pilot” the aircraft, with my copilot/s.

Who also MANAGES the total operation of a £100,000,000 piece of equipment almost single handedly, and profitably, when airborne? Yes, it may surprise you that it is the Captain. He, also, hopefully, operates the machine so that you arrive safely. How much of your business are you trusted with? Are you responsible for the safety of so many different people, daily?

I constantly have to manage the machine for the overall benefit and profit of the company.

If you wish to quibble about my reponsibilities and salary then I suggest it could be done face to face when we are in a thunderstorm landing at some remote airport, without the luxuries and facilities offered to us by a place such as Heathrow….you may be very grateful of my management!

It is all called ‘skill’ in both business and the art of flying, in VERY senior management.

(And the use of 60C is a company/union agreement…sorry)

[MartynSinclair]

CaptainMe

Welcome to the BT forum and especially pleased that you confirm yourself, through your posting as a BA pilot.

Firstly, just for correctness, can I ask you to check your aircraft layout, as I think you will find the seat in question is 60B (60C doesn’t exist).

Secondly, thank you very much for confirming that the seat 60B issue is indeed a company and union agreement (there is absolutely no need to apologize over this). I am curious though, why is there a need for you to be allocated 2 seats/beds for crew rest. If the rest seat on the flight deck is not sufficiently comfortable enough, why hasn’t this been bought to the attention of your employer/union or Boeing?

Thirdly, has it been agreed with your employer, that 60B is a perk for you to give away to family and friends, if you choose not to use it for crew rest? If so, then I presume that you are taxed on this benefit in kind and that it appears in your P11D.

With regards to my comments about your status, if you read my post correctly, you will see that I confirm that pilots “deserve every penny of their pay packet” and I will also add, unquestionably. Pilots are extremely skilful in being able to control aircraft, not only landing and take-off, but also navigational and situation awareness, especially at night.

Most passengers have no idea about base checks and renewals or the stress involved in completing a hold in the allocated time, flying manually, if you still do, or what it’s like to realise you are below the glideslope during a base check and it’s your second attempt. I wholeheartedly respect the skills of pilots and crews.

I also do not dispute the fact you manage an asset the size of the 747 (if that’s what you fly) and the number of souls you carry. That’s why you have the status Captain and that’s why you get rewarded with the salary you do.

Perhaps we are splitting hairs over the term Senior Manager. IMHO a Captain far outweighs a Senior Manager.

Anyway, welcome to the forum and I look forward to hearing from you regarding the need for 2 rest seats. Please either answer on this thread or preferably

http://www.businesstraveller.com/discussion/topic/BA-seat-60B-upstairs-747-400

Martyn

[FrozenAssets]

If truth be told the reality and importance of a pilot is somewhat different. The significant enhancements in jet airline automation and safety means it requires greater skill to operate turbo props between Scottish islands than jets between LHR – JFK.

Today’s airliners can take-off, navigate and land themselves in highly adverse conditions to better effect than humans.

Within a decade, flights will be able to be conducted by remote control removing the need for in-flight pilots, though it is doubtful the public would agree.

The advent of FMS (Flight Management Systems) has already removed the need for flight engineers and navigators with flight planning, navigation, performance and aircraft control functions being carried out by computer. The autopilot taking input from the FMS.

Pilots are highly skilled in flying aircraft and managing, with significant computer input, their complex electronic systems. Pilots are not recruited nor profiled for their people skills nor strategic corporate thinking. Similar to P&O ferry captains or RAF pilots their management remit is to take responsibility for the equipment, cargo and follow instructions/commands.

A pilot’s skill in flying should not be confused with people management and leadership. Jonathan Ross was amongst the highest paid by the BBC with a high degree of program responsibility – this did not make him a senior manager, let alone a very senior manager.

[RoadKing]

For what it is worth, I also experienced issues getting bookings with SK for my Eurobonus pts, however, it eventually worked out.
As others have pointed out, you may have to bargain on the dates and schedules a bit, but with a bit of flexibility it gets through.
I haven’t tried EC yet, will probably do in a years time or so, getting a First for me and my lady. I don’t expect it to be easy, but I don’t expect BA to be any worse than SK. It belongs to the story that SK doesn’t have First, so it might have been easier if we had chosen Biz.

It makes sense to me that the airlines prefer to make money on the premium seats. Although, of course they have to live up to the commitment they do when they create such programmes.

[CaptainMe]

Mr Sinclair,

I am not getting into a discussion on the use of 60B. You obviously have a bee in your bonnet about it and are using this website to vent your feelings. Fine.

If BA, by agreement, set that seat aside for crew rest then it is not saleable and has no value as it is not in the booking system. It has no taxable value. Should the flight deck crew decide not to use it, then so be it. Should we wish to make this seat, with no value, available to somebody else, including fare payers, we can and do.
This is totally honest and open. I am sure there are many managers in other industries who have dishonest and undeclared benefits.

I notice there there are no complaints about the crew rest bunks in the ‘cupboard’ on the BA 777 in the first class cabin. This takes up the space of two seats.

[MartynSinclair]

CaptainMe

“A bee in my bonnet”, I think not. I am just trying to understand why pilots need 2 rest seats for a 3 man/women crew.

When loyal passengers are unable to redeem BA Miles due to a lack of seats and then a seat is taken out of use for crew rest, yet the pilots dont use it as such, you are absolutely right, I take issue. Where you are very wrong, is to say that this seat has no value.

If the crew rest seat is not needed, you guys should be big enough to turn round to the company and agree to release the seat for revenue, by agreement.

You have still avoided the question, why you need 2 (two) rest seats. Is there something wrong with room (with door) behind your seat on the flight deck that contains a very comfortable rest seat that reclines. I always thought it was very comfortable).

ps – this is a discussion forum, so why be so defensive about this and say ” Iam not getting into a discussion” (always a sign that something is being hidden!!)

[Binman62]

Captainme…There are few if any who contribute to this site who would argue that flight crew earn their pay and have the lives of many in their control. What I find incredible is the lack of humility displayed in your post and the rather self important tone. ” you may be glad of my management.” Certainly you do a very important and responsible job (for which you are richly rewarded.) but my GP does too, as do millions of others around the world from the social workers to surgeons, bus drivers to ships captains.
I am always rather concerned when I here people blow their own trumpet of self importance and sadly from experience BA flight crew ( not sure if you are such a beast) are some of the worst in this regard. It is one reason why the airline is seen as aloof and arrogant. Crew however make mistakes and when they do, like surgeons, they often bury many of the bodies as a results.

Please continue to do your job and do it well but spare us please from the self congratulations.

[CRAIGADAMS]

According to the BA website today:

‘a superb choice of reward flights available in World Traveller and Euro Traveller / Club World and Club Europe departing from London over the coming weeks’

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/ba-miles-redemption/public/en_gb

Hope some people can take advantage of that availability!

[Travellator]

Comedians !

Availabilty HKG in Club October/November.

ZERO !!!!!!!

[Author]

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