[BABenji]

Call the Exec Club. They sting you for an offline booking fee of about £30 per person, but in the grand scheme of things it’s not the end of the world and it gives you the flexibility not offered on the website.

I use the call centre to book using companion vouchers when i want to go into one city and out of another.

[VintageKrug]

Quite so. Call in, pay the fee and it’s sorted.

Only disadvantages I can see of booking round trip is that you cannot change the inbound sector once the first sector has been flown, and would have to pay the offline fee if you wished to mix your class of travel.

The taxes/fees may be more for two one ways than for a round trip – even booked online – not sure as I never check – but you can check this out yourself.

Don’t forget if not using an Amex 2for1 voucher you can also start and end your journey (with a long “layover” in London) in a “Europe Zone 1” city – France/Holland and a few other destinations – for no extra BA Miles. Handy for an extra two weekends away, if you fancy that.

[JordanD]

Another random question: should I make a booking using BA Miles as two “singles” rather than as one “return”, other than the extra ability to make changes to each leg independently of the other and the extra credit card fee, are there any other advantages/disadvantages to note? For example, would BA treat me as a “different type” of passenger at my destination for my return journey home?

[Binman62]

This thread began as a result of my not being able to get seats to SEA on BA, a route that traditionally provided a gateway to the West coast USA and Canada.

I have just spent 2 hours looking at availability for 2011 to a variety of places for the family . Interestingly SEA now has more seats available in January alone than were available over a 4 month period back in September.

I cannot help but feel that BA revenue managers have messed this one up spectacularly and have lost out on filling some seats that will certainly now go empty.

Moreover from Feb till June just 4 days have availability in First on the SEA route with nothing available in April or May and just one day at the end of June. This is frankly ridiculous and it seems to clear to me that BA are artificially withholding seats in the forlorn hope of selling them.

Other routes are just as bad and while I accept I want 4 seats I have happy and willing to split 2+2 or 3+1. To do this I first look at making a booking for a single passenger and that shows how many reward seats are available on each flight. Handy when route has multiple flights.

Sydney in First has just 6 seats in the whole of Nov Dec from LHR and just 1 for Club. I also note that BA’s own fees now exceed those of governments coming in at £288 for fuel and insurance, whilst Governments take £277. In total £565 or almost the costs of a seat in economy.

So aside from the Gold card offer of paying double ( no thanks) would love to know how any of you get seats.

I am not Gold Card and not likely to be now as I have simply had an awful year in 2010 with BA. I am generally a big fan and they have been my carrier of choice however, I have had my eyes opened to the real costs of my silver card and retaining it as a UK based passenger. I pay more for my flights than my European colleagues and I get fewer benefits or incentives. Retention of my silver card is almost double that of those in Europe and of course at fares significantly higher than they pay. I have had 5 round trips solely on BA in the last 12 months and 4 resulted in travel insurance claims with just one, the volcanic disruption, not being within their control.

If you add in the continued absence of redemption opportunities and their pretty woeful operational performance of late, then the retention of Executive club membership comes at too high a price. IMHO BA simple do not value my custom!

Flying short haul is nothing short of a chore with them now and they really must look again at flights of more than 2.5 hours. Both the Euro Traveller economy and Club Europe products on such flights is simply not good enough. The lack of catering in Euro Traveller on sub 2 hours could be forgiven if there was adequate catering in lounges but my recent experience in Dusseldorf showed that is not the case.

On long haul the New First is good but it is simply a refurbishment of the old product and layout and there really is nothing new, certainly nothing that could justify the price tag both of the cost of a ticket from the UK or the alleged refurbishment cost. Club World remains a world beating product but has more than priced itself out of the market.

I have found fares in Business of well under £2000 to HKG and other destinations in the Far Easy on Air France / KLM Lufthansa and others. Some provide BA miles and tier points, others of course do not.

So my New Year’s Resolution is to use other carriers ex LHR more frequently than BA. I may miss out on miles and tier points but frankly I could buy the miles with the money I have saved, assuming they are really that important. I will still get access to a lounge as I generally only travel in premium cabins, so again that is not an issue.

I will miss T5 for sure, but again I have to decide if paying over £1500 more for a seat to Hong Kong represents value for money.

BA on the other hand need to decide if they value the business, people and families like me provide, and then demonstrate it. At the moment they are not doing so for me.

Happy New Year

[MartynSinclair]

Binman – try searching from Italy (or other European starting points) and see if the number of seats and the total charges differ. I accept you may not want to start ex Europe, but this may highlight how Europeans get more Air Mile seat options and availability than those of us starting off in the UK.

Happy New Year.

[VintageKrug]

How strange as I was in the Dusseldorf Terraces lounge a few weeks ago, and enjoyed plentiful sandwiches, crisps as well as spying a range of cakes. Indeed there were two food stations, and it is one of the most spacious outstation lounges I have visited.

Certainly didn’t go hungry.

This year I have redeemed over 600,000 BA Miles for personal trips; two returns in F/J to the USA (one West coast), a round trip in F to Australia and one MFU to the Middle East. All on the exact dates I wanted, in my preferred cabin. Even got my preferred seat (2k or Upper Deck).

While most used the 2for1 voucher (doubling the value of my miles) I have simply purchased additional seats when no companion availability existed, using the shareholder discount.

So it really is possible to redeem, even on the most sought after routes/dates.

Revenue management does indeed restrict redemption availability, and with a modest uptick in premium travel (I think it was about 2.5% increase using the November figures, but would have to check) BA is certainly able to sell those seats, especially against a significant reduction in capacity; and so they should.

It is much more likely that others are getting those seats ahead of you by booking well in advance; now AAdvantage fliers can redeem on BA flights transatlantically, and also because BA hosed the US market with a 100,000 BA Miles offer for taking up a citi credit card, there is a great deal of competition exUSA right now.

Can I suggest you try the detailed methods I set out earlier in this thread (post 4) to find the seats you need; you might also try exploring availability one way as that can sometimes reveal seats which were not made available for return flights.

As I have mentioned previously, you are once again looking for availability a week into the release of the sale fares, which is about the worst time to look for it; many many people will have used up that availability on Miles for Upgrade tickets, upgrading from the least expensive WT+ and CW sale fares purchased during the Christmas break when people have the time to search, plan and book for 2011.

Availability does open up, and especially last minute.

Try redeeming to Seattle next week, and you will see as many as 8 seats available in Club World for almost every flight.

Oh, and New BA First is categorically NOT a “refurbishment of the old product”; it is an entirely £100m new seat and cabin which had to be re-certified by the CAA; the seat itself moves in an entirely different way, the buddy seat is totally different.

http://www.ba.com/first

Finally, if you use the shareholder discount, fares exLHR to HKG can be had in the Sale for a tad over your £2000 price point in Club World without changing at a European hub, earning full BA Miles (at the new, more generous rates) and with a guaranteed fully flat bed.

It seems strange to criticise BA saying they have priced themselves out of the market and yet competitive deals do exist, and reported load factors demonstrate BA’s ability to fill its aircraft.

[MartynSinclair]

Could it be that load factors have increased due to the influx of the special offers stateside and ex Europe. Are there any stats available to show ticket sales originating UK, ex Europe, Stateside or indeed see the airmiles seat sales from the UK, ex Europe or Stateside.

I agree the load factors are increasing, but would like to understand whether this is due to UK revenue/airmiles or revenue/ticket sales from the outstations, where prices are generally cheaper.

[Binman62]

VK I take your point that you have been able to use your miles. I have also used 300,000 miles but not to any of my first 4 choices. I am quite certain that I will enjoy my family holiday but it is becoming very challenging to get seats. That there is a sale on should not make the slightest difference. These miles were gained as a result of my custom and BA should have a reasonable level of availability on routes. I accept that peak times may be challenging however as you can see from my unscientific sample below the lack of seats is no longer limited to peak periods.
On their web site it states very clearly that availability can change but rarely increases. As far a SEA goes for January that is simply not true.

Now let’s look at LHR SIN Club world. Over 100 seats per day in each direction excluding QF code share on JSA. This figures rises to over 220 if you include it.
Between now and Dec 23 2011 there are just 26 days when a seat is available out bound from LHR and just 36 days when a seat is available inbound. In the time I have been searching I have yet to find a day when there has been more than 1 seat available. That is frankly ludicrous and defeats entirely the idea that my loyalty is rewarded.
To SYD it is worse with just 5 days till Dec 23 2011 with availability in Club. From April the only seat is on Dec 6th. That is shocking. Return and the situation is a little better with availability on 20 days.
There are 61 days of availability in First outbound to SYD and 86 inbound. Again my random sample is that there is never more than 1 available on any flight.
The amex voucher is useless and so, if I chose BA, then I would pay double the mileage effectively for a single seat and then an inflated fare for 3 other passengers. ” My cup runneth over”

However when you look at SIN SYD SIN the situation is different. Now there are 32 days of availability whilst SYD SIN has 76 days of availability. So once again loyal, high fare paying, UK based passengers are being blocked from using their rewards whilst QF and other one world passengers with better access to Asia have access to BA to and from OZ.
I should add that the price of sub £2000 using the shareholder discount was still almost 25% higher that AF/KLM and indeed even Finnair. BA are good but I would be seriously deluded to suggest they are 25% better..
I have no doubt that BA are filling their planes with ex EU fares as evidenced by the queues at transit search (north side of T5) and by the fact that when stuck on the ground in Dusseldorf almost 60% of passengers elected to get off when given the option. In LHR 3 days earlier and in similar circumstances just 2 passengers got off.
The business rationale for going for the EU passenger is sound; they are better off, have a very stable and strong currency, travel extensively and speak English. However BA can and do manage their inventory better than most carriers and so they should be able to provide UK based customers with better access to redemption availability in some attempt to reward them for their long suffering loyalty particularly in the last year.
Finally the Dusseldorf Lounge. The food in the past has been good but recently the time to swap from breakfast to Lunch has been moved to 12 noon, just 25 minutes before the BA939 departure. As a result there is little left from the breakfast selection and nothing at all for lunch. The visitors book was filled with negative comments when I passed through on the 20th.

[JohnPhelanAustralia]

Binman, you mentioned that you are no longer BA Gold. I wonder if this is changing the availabilities of redemption seats that you see, when compared with VK’s search?

I know that with QF, different frequent flyer levels will have access to different numbers of redemption seats, e.g. a QF Platinum or Gold member may see 2 redemption seats available on a certain flight; a Silver member may see only one, and a Bronze member may see nil available. QF does this deliberately to provide greater benefits – i.e. greater redemption availability – to its higher tier frequent flyers. Does BA do the same?

The other issue that both you and VK raised is the fact that, a week prior to the flight, if lots of seats in F or J remain unsold, BA Yield Management will make additional redemption seats available, as they believe those seats now will be unlikely to be sold to revenue pax. That’s great, but fairly useless if you are trying to plan a holiday 6 or 10 months in advance – you need certainty of flights so you can book accommodation, etc. Not sure what the solution to this one is; the Yield people will always want to maximise the number of seats available for sale, but they need to strike a balance by allowing suffiicient award redemption seats. That said, I would think it would almost always be extremely difficult to find 4 F or J seats available for redemption on any flight! (At least that’s the case with QF; 2 redemption seats would probably be the max in F or J on any international flight.)

[CallMeIshmael]

BA has a predictive booking system, developed by their Operational Research Unit, to maximise revenues. It constantly monitors actual sales against predicted sales down to individual flight level. It can be used to flex prices but also flex availability of airmile seats, thus optimising revenues and utilisation.

It is not uncommon for an increased numbers of airmile seats to be released 3-6 months in advance as well as closer to departure dependent upon how far actual sales are behind predicted.

[Potakas]

John Phelan is probably correct about the additional redemption seats , during the last snow disruption on December i was stuck on London and i had to go back to Edinburgh to catch another flight originating from EDI the next day, my flight from LHR has been cancelled and it was impossible to change my flight instead from LHR-EDI to LCY-EDI (LCY was open) through BA.com , so i checked the prices for the LCY-EDI and the cheapest was something around 250 GBR, the east coast train has been suspended. So, my best option was to check availability for reward seats, i checked it and i was able to find availability on every flight during that day.

I can understand that my story is different but i found it very strange that neither of the flights had the indication ”only 2 reward seat are available” or something like that, there were many of those seats available. Also my flight was almost full and during that day LCY was probably the only way to go there ( i didn’t check trains via Glasgow).

Binman, my parents will go to Asia next April, i was trying to book them a return trip on Business Class to SEA with Cathay or JAL or even with AA,( My start point was one of the BKK or Tokyo or PEK) it was impossible, the only destination i was able to found availability was SFO or LAX. Because i had time to kill, i checked for many dates and didn’t find out anything, only some times just one reward seat. I thought that probably Cathay and JAL are probably do not offer great availability to the other oneworld members (which is fair).

John Phelan, what you say about the Tier status is interesting and i will check it on two days when i will be more shiny 😉

Regards

[VintageKrug]

All good points.

I only see additional availability in economy, and it’s always clear if this has been “made available” as a consequence of being BA Gold.

[Binman62]

I understood that BA Gold could obtain a seat for double the mileage when no other seats were available. I have always understood and accepted that redemption seats would be limited and have always been happy to split even if that resulted in travelling on different days. I had no idea however that they would be so restricted. That there are just 5 club world seats available over the next 52 weeks to SYD from London is (IMHO) a disgrace, and huge disincentive to using BA.

[VintageKrug]

We seem to be hitting some thing of a brick wall here.

I have now stated twice that availability is at its very worst very shortly after the start of the Sale (the latest one was posted here on 21 December).

Both times you have posted on this topic have been exactly over that “worst possible” period, and you are seeking up to four seats on the one BA flight per day to a very popular destination. If you think of the capacity of a 747/777 that really isn’t very many seats even offered for sale, especially in First.

Availability is indeed dynamic and will change between now and the time you wish to fly, and it is especially noticeable that last minute availability of redemption seats is now much more prevalent than it used to be. So do keep checking back.

Perhaps booking in Y/WT+/via NYC/ORD/on a oneworld partner to ensure you get there might be an option, with the opportunity to re-book into BA J or F direct should availability open up (I think you can get prompted automatically using things like expertflyer).

Having said that, there is absolutely no guarantee BA Miles seats will be available on any particular service, and nor should there be; if BA can sell those seats, then it should do so. In fact, as I said before, there are now very many US-based flyers flush with freebie bonus BA Miles which can now be used on this service, and have most probably already booked seats on this route.

The fact is it has never been easier to redeem miles online, many people are newly wise to their potential value, there have never been so many miles in circulation, demand is high as people’s budgets are reduced and the value in terms of ability to spend miles is diminishing as capacity is reduced. That is not a phenomenon peculiar to BA.

My experience is that I have always been able to fly in a premium cabin and within a day of my preferred date, to and from a combination of popular US, Middle and Far Eastern destinations by booking well in advance. I have redeemed four seats round trip in F before, so there certainly is availability if you seek it out.

I would suggest, as I did previously, that it would be better to search for availability immediately the seats flights are available for booking, and certainly not the week after the Sale begins.

If you go into this expecting wide open, multiple premium availability months after the free seats have been first offered for redemption on high demand and low capacity routes on specific, inflexible dates, you are simply setting yourself up for disappointment. It is an unrealistic expectation.

There are people who will be on the website the very morning the seats come online for redemption, and this is even more prevalent now AAdvantage members can book on BA transatlantically from the US.

[MartynSinclair]

The situation with revenue seats is exactly the same in that the prices and availabilty can change, even during the sale period. A company is run for the sole purpose of creating profit by providing goods or services (in that order). If BA can maximise profit by reducing the number of freebies across the board, then that has to be the way forward. Air mile award seats appear as contentious as crew freebies – both are part of the BA airline financial model and both need to be controlled. If you notice, airmiles do have a value of something along the lines of .000001p per airmile, which I presume is to show that they have ‘privilege’ value only, i.e. they are a gift and not a contractual or exchangeable asset.

My own personal experience of using airmiles is that on short haul, I have never not been able to redeem for either economy or club on a selected flight as long as I am booking 2 weeks in advance. Long haul is a different story. If I can’t book on line, I will call BAEC but not in the UK (as they refuse to deal with my European account). The USA BAEC as the European office will deal and sometimes they have been able to open seats that are not showing on line. However, it is only me travelling, trying to get 4 seats in F using airmiles, I think on any airline would be difficult.

The interesting question that has never been answered is who takers preference at the gate when on the odd occasion I have been in a standby situation and there are BA staff / revenue ticket holders / airmile ticket holders on standby. I know crew on duty have a certain priority, but I have been told by gate staff that some crew on freebies also take priority over passengers irrespective of airmile or revenue.

Each time I see seat 60B flying empty it does annoy me as it could have gone to revenue or an award ticket. However, I guess that until BA review the entire issue of crew freebies (Captain or otherwise) longhaul (10 hour+) flights will always have that 1 extra seat going to waste which could otherwise have been used for an award or passenger revenue.

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