[AMcWhirter]

Much UK media coverage today of the above plans.

I thought I would let you know (and this is something no other UK media has mentioned today) is that Sweden’s SJ closed *all* its ticket offices in 2021.

I say “all” because the closures even included main stations as Malmo, Gothenburg and Stockholm.

Sweden’s national rail operator closes all ticket offices

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MarcusGB

[Bath_VIP]

The Man in Seat 61 wrote a good thread on Twitter yesterday which made a lot of good points. I will post a link if I can find it again but his main point was there is nothing wrong with the proposal provided certain issues are sorted out before this happens.

I’ve heard some people say this will disadvantage disabled people. As someone who is disabled, I don’t think they are speaking for me. Ticket offices are often the last place I want to go to at stations.

We live in a world where we have 6 options for paying for rail travel.

1. Ticket office
2. Ticket machine
3. Website
4. Smartphone app
5. Contactless card
6. Agent/assistant

As someone who travels by rail 50-100 times a year, I probably use a ticket office once a year. The last time was because the ticket machines were out of order and I think I had an issue with the app on my phone.

The future though are numbers 4 & 5, the app and contactless credit card. I can’t remember the last time I used a ticket office in London ever since I got an Oyster card. For this to roll out nationally though, the Man in Seat 61 was clear the fare system needs to be sorted out. We’re seeing this happen on a regional level but it’s the mainline routes that will take the most work.

[TimFitzgeraldTC]

I’m not sure Sweden is a good example – considering the want to make the tooth fairy redundant and get rid of cash. Cash is important in society and likewise ticket staff / offices are a necessity for many people – even if 85-90% of transactions can now be done online or via machines. (same also applies to things like supermarkets getting rid of manned tills).

Fare system is to complex as alluded to by Mark from Seat61. So it must be simplified and for mainline stations a ticket office still needs to exist alongside better machines (even online purchases are not always clear on ticket restrictions such as time or route). For those who know how to use rules to your advantage – you still need to talk to someone who knows how to access correct interpretation of regulations. The danger of removing offices and only having 1/2 concourse staff to support is where to technically challenging questions get answered without resorting to answering “No – you can’t do that” – when you can.

For someone like me – machines aren’t an issue. for people like my Grandmother and others that aren’t so technologically literate (my Gran doesn’t even have a mobile phone), then this becomes a barrier to a functioning society for all.

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Johnnyg, theflyingnurse, sparkyflier

[AMcWhirter]

I would agree Tim.

It would be good if we were able to get some feedback from the Swedish experience which, so far, no other UK media has reported (except for BT and UK rail press in 2021).

[cwoodward]

I can offer no direct experience and add only that the system is extensive and seemingly the worlds most deregulated
More importantly the abolition of ticket offices seems not to have been much noticed as the patronage of the rail system looks to be increasing year on year.
This perhaps largely to the high quality of the offering and what looks to be intense competition across much of the 15000km system.

[TominScotland]

errr, cwoodward, I am not sure that I would agree that the UK offers ‘high quality’ in its rail services. The experience is hugely variable, depending on rail company and route. The best long-distance experience, IMHO, is provided by LNER which, ironically, is state-run!! Prices are high compared to other European countries largely because of lower subsidies but also a lack of investment in new and innovative product, notably dedicated high-speed rail.

[cwoodward]

Tom I may not have phrased my post well….I was referring to Sweden NOT the UK.

[FDOS]

It’s worth bearing in my that the Nordics have always been far more open to self serve, for cultural reasons.

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AMcWhirter

[AMcWhirter]

At the time GBR (Great British Railways) was announced there would be a government-backed app to handle ticket sales.

But as I noted in a recent rail piece for the magazine the launch of GBR has been delayed and there is still no sign of this app.

It means that, should the ticket office closures go ahead, online retailer Trainline stands to gain much additional revenue.

Today’s Sunday Times reports that Trainline receives 5 per cent commission on rail ticket sales.

As noted in the magazine since March 2020 all rail fares revenue (open access operators excepted) is taken by the government under ’emergency measures.’

(Of course travellers can book through the TOCs direct but many still prefer Trainline for its ease of use even though it charges a booking fee).

Paul Lewis’ tweet displays today’s report avoiding the paywall.

Another IT promise fails – govt hasn’t even out out for tender the alternative ticket app leaving Trainline to take 5% off every ticket sale it arranged. I always go to the rail company’s own website. pic.twitter.com/plAzQ8EFki

— Paul Lewis (@paullewismoney) July 9, 2023

[MarcusGB]

It IS Important that we consider many older people especially, who do not use up to date mobile phone technology, and really wish to physically see and discuss tickets with someone. Equally Tourists who are not used to the varying Operator or network in the UK, especially when joining two together for one trip.

Just as with Airline fares, it can save much money to look for the best fares, and perhaps we have the awareness here on BT to do this.
Many do not.
Perhaps this is why Travel Agents still exist, and they may well gain more from the train booking services.

Why we make it so complicated here, when areas of the UK or a graphic of the population do not have fair understanding or access, lie a National Dutch NS card, i find pretty discriminatory!

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julieoapw

[MartynSinclair]

As someone that prefers train travel over chancing the UK motorway system, especially if it avoids the London orbital, M25, I do find it a totally confusing how to get the most appropriate train ticket and then how to get a physical ticket or bar code on phone. Split tickets and their use – previously posters described having to physically get off trains and go through barriers, mid journey. At least the last 2 times I have used split tickets the onboard ticket collectors seem to no longer care and say as long as I had tickets to my destination I was OK not to get off mid journey.

I am also shocked by the number of people that feel buying a ticket is not for them and just barge through ticket barriers and legging it if they see a ticket enforcement team trying to check tickets at the barriers.

I just wish there was an easier way to understand the UK train system, the confusing map and for the various operators to work with each other… Unlike in Europe where the train system city to city can complete with flying, not the same in the UK.

Closing the ticket offices is only one small part of the problem.

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cwoodward

[CathayLoyalist2]

It is going to happen whether we like it or not. Where technology can reduce costs then the human interaction gets diminished or removed. Banks have accelerated their branch closures and BT will have AI as a prominent customer service interface in the coming years.

[AMcWhirter]

Thanks for all your comments.

Senior rail manager Sir Michael Holden was previously MD of East Coast before it was taken over by VTEC (Virgin Trains EC) and later taken over by the gov’t and renamed LNER.

Anyway Sir Michael is used to dealing with the gov’t during his time at East Coast.

As @holdmch he tweeted some days ago “If it wasn’t clear before the latest announcement on ticket offices, it is abundantly clear now: right at the top of our govt’t there is no longer any interest in the future of rail, just to cut its cost ASAP. Sadly [these] continuing rail strikes play into this revised political agenda.”

The ticket office closures are being driven by the gov’t and not the TOCs who will say nothing because under ’emergency measures’ they are now controlled by the gov’t who collects the fares’ revenue. (Open access operators excepted)

Of course in some cases the TOCs are entirely gov’t-controlled.

Examples: LNER, Northern, TfW, TPE, SE Rail, Scotrail and Cal Sleeper. (The last two by the Scottish gov’t).

[MarcusGB]

There was an interesting Phone in on BBC’s Radio 4 “You & Yours” Yesterday regarding the impact of this.

Many disabled people, blind, mobility issues, or navigation access to the machines (eg Wheelchair use not the height of the machines), and those as i previously mentioned, who were not so technologys savvy more older people, made compelling points. There are many people Impaired, Physically or in terms of Mental capacity, who need another human being.

Whatever happens, i would suggest we need to ensure Equality of Access for all, and this also means not being cheated on the ticket price when just turning up to travel. The constant overcrowding on long distance services should be restricted to seats available, reducing discomforts, Safety and standing up, enabling access for F & B services often suspended on overcrowded trains.
Machines will not take the time to offer you the best value fare!

Perhaps for those that would be incapacitated by the removal of ticket offices and personnel, we could develop a National Card where they are charged a standardised fair price, able to check in at a station or on board, without fine threats.
Some long distance machine issued tickets, are the same price as a return flight ticket to the far reaches of Europe +.
Surely,Existing railcards could maybe adapted in some way to enable this, which would remove Some of the concerns or those with an extra need?

Unlike other countries, where you can simply scan a card and rail travel whenever, (eg Netherlands) we have multiple Private Operators, and this removes The Right to “Unplanned or spontaneous” Travel.

I wish “The Right to Travel” was enshrined in our Human Rights in the UK, as enabled in The Netherlands Countrywide, for all equally, as and when they choose or need!

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julieoapw

[Joseph]

One factor that hasn’t been mentioned is the recent articles concerning a 40% increase in crime and robberies compared to pre-pandemic on the railways since the current drive to reduce staff has started to bite. It’s an open invite for criminals to target passengers if they know stations are unmanned, and that’s even before you consider the safety implications of not having anyone to deal with incidents when things go pear shaped.

It will affect disabled passengers undoubtedly, plus comparing us to Sweden, where the travelling public are more disciplined and have a different culture hardly compares to our overstretched and under invested network.

The only ‘benefit’ of this policy is the shareholders and government, which I personally feel should be resisted for the reasons above,

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julieoapw

[Author]

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