[Anonymous]

[VintageKrug]

I noticed a plane I was flying on last month was the victim of one of these “laser attacks” coming into LHR.

It’s good to see this sort of idiocy is being clamped down on:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7990533.stm

[BlackTower]

Quite

Perhaps we should also deal with incorrect use of laser pointers during powerpoint presentations. We have all been victims. Should we form a support group?

[LuganoPirate]

If this was for real, I’m sure the perpetrator would be hanging around in his own back yard just waiting to be caught!

I also think the BBC has just given an idea to thousands of kids with nothing better to do than point these things at aircraft, which should be unaffected anyway considering the plane is most likely on automatic pilot and the pilots have many other lights shining at them.

My kids have been pestering me to buy them a pointer which shines for 4kms, but I have been steadfastly resisting. Waste of money and why do people want them anyway? I can see no practical purpose for a device like that at all.

[BlackTower]

Readers of pulp espionage writer Tom Clancy will know that there are dazzle weapons designed to cause air or vehicle crashes. H&M underwear ads are enough to cause me to crash……i never get my dazzle weapon out in public.

[craigwatson]

lugano pirate – there are very few automatic landings, the GREAT majority are manual from a certain height. There are only a few aircraft types capable of “autoland”, and even then that is rarely used in good weather. and EVERY pilot must do a certain number of manual approaches every month to remain current.

In response to them being faced with lights shining at them all the time during approach, there is a HUGE difference to seeing approach lights, runway lights, etc.. to having a laser shot at you. If the laser were to hit you full in the eye at night you WILL be blinded for a short time ( not even able to read your instruments ), that is why especially at LHR the PNF (pilot not flying) is instructed to be ready to take over the aircraft.

this has been a major issue at LHR for awhile now, BBC did a big documentary on it last year, and the police helo has been watching to report laser sightings to ground units since at least last year.

[MartynSinclair]

Craigwatson, you are presumably based at LHR, but the problem with the lasers are just as bad in parts of Asia, where the police and military are not as reactive to these situations as they are in Europe and the States.

The problem with the lasers is that they are so easily available in the street markets and more often than not, they are more powerful than described on the box.

Whether they are used against a small corporate or a large passenger jets, the effects are the same. I know of different operating procedures used below 1500’ on approaches into known problem airports where the operating pilot keeps his head on instruments right down to DH, with the PNF following through from DH to touch down, especially at night.

It would be far easier though if there was a crackdown on what basically is a laser, the size of a pen that there can be no practical reason for someone using.

[LuganoPirate]

I’m glad we’re back on topic. Craig, you’re obviously more informed on these matters than I am, so I stand corrected. I had no idea this is such a problem. Apart from scientific use these devices should be banned with heavy penalties for anyone caught with one.

I don’t know if it’s true, but I’ve also heard of people with transceivers prentending to be ATC and ordering planes to abort landings / takeoffs? Just as dangerous I’d think. Can you confirm if this is true or not?

[MartynSinclair]

Yes LuganoPirate these are freely available. No license needed to purchase but a license required to operate. There have been instances of these being used by bogus ATC operatives, but fortuntely their range is not that great and generally transmission quality is poor. They can cost as little as a few hundred $, which may go to explain why there is/has been such a problem.

The main users are micro light and light sports flying.

Emergency services will also use portable units, but these will be of a far higher build/quality spec.

The pity is that you do not have to show a license prior to purchase.,

[craigwatson]

I have also heard stories of this, but dont know of anyone it has happened to, so thankfully does not appear to be to widespread.

in regards to the use of lasers, i am of the opinion that it is just kids having fun with the lights (kinda star wars stuff!) but there are those that think it is deliberate, I guess i just want to think its accidental rather than delibrate.

again i have seen these laser pointers at almost every market i have been to.

[craigwatson]

just a note lugano about automation.

above 10000′ almost 100% of commercial aviation is on autopilot, below that it comes down to company SOP, some operaters require automatics remain until certain points in the arrival (eg. localiser or glide slope capture) whereas other operators require manual flight below 10000′ (unless circumstances require otherwise), while still others leave it down to the pilots, and some like doing manual approaches while some almost always use the automatics to the last possible moment, usually DH (decision height)

[MartynSinclair]

“again i have seen these laser pointers at almost every market i have been to”

Not sure if you realise Craig, but the price of the lasers are dependant upon the strength of the beam. The higher priced models, which are not on street markets, but are as easy to source are the ones that can that can cause the most damage.

I would like to agree with your “kids having fun” comment but shining a high powered laser towards a flight deck falls outside of that category.

[LuganoPirate]

Thanks Craig, interesting. I’ve just done some research and discovered Martyn, that even the high powered ones that shine for 5kms can easily be bought for about £50.

I never knew green ones existed, I thought they were all red pointers, and they do have legitimate uses for example in astronomy.

This research from the FAA though is quite frightening.
http://www.pangolin.com/faa/laser-aircraft-animation-and-explanation.htm

[MartynSinclair]

Unfortunately LP they can be bought for about $10 in some locations.

I am sure there are some uses for these sorts of lasers, but cant imagine why they need to be sold in market stalls on the pretext of it being a “toy”!

[LuganoPirate]

I agree. Seems they are banned in Australia for sale to the public if over 1 mw. Some online sellers are responsible insofar as they will only sell to businesses or organisations that have a legitimate reason for buying them. Trouble is there are plenty of others that will sell to anyone.

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