[1nfrequent]

JonathanCohen09:
What would it take for you to decide not to fly BA to a destination that they have competition on or is the desire to accumulate tier points and avios the only thing that matters or do you really believe that the BA product is still superior to the competition?

I’m interested in this question because I’ve got a trip to Australia next year with my sister and there was a lot of discussion about who we would fly with. We’re both BAEC silver and she’s a member of Miles & More (no status) and we were both prepared to go ex-EU (I was happy to go from anywhere, my sister wanted to go from Switzerland). We both wanted to stay One World so we could get Tier Points and Avios (this trip will take me to Gold for the first time and my sister will retain silver) but we weren’t wedded to BA because we both know that it isn’t the best business product on the market. I’d hoped to get a good fare on Qatar as I’d heard good things but in the end at the time we booked, the best deal ended up being a mix of BA/Cathay, which I was excited by because it means I get to try another airline’s product.

The reason we stay One World is because the alliance pretty much works for all of the travelling that we want to do and the BAEC scheme is probably the best out there for me given my travel patterns.

JonathanCohen09:
Do any of you have any thoughts why BA did not take advantage of of the arrival of their A380’s, 787-800/900 and 777-300ER’s to update the F and CW cabins to bring them more in line with or get ahead of the competition. When it first came out CW was the product to catch up with so I am not sure why BA seems happ to let themselves fall behind?

Could it be that they do not need to update the product as their are still so many people who will fly with them despite their being better products out there. Even AA are now 4 abreast in J class and the other American carriers are offering direct aisle access. I never thought that any US carrier would have a better hard product than BA.

Wiser posters here will be able to answer this better than me, but my take is that BA doesn’t feel that it needs to do too much to its product to continue making a profit. I think it has made some tweaks, hasn’t it – it’s brought or is bringing the IFE up to date and there was some stuff with mood lighting (for whatever that’s worth).

Interesting questions though – good to see such a reasonable discussion here.

[MartynSinclair]

Out of the 63 sectors I have so far flown this year, 52 of them have been on BA (and 6 others had BA flight numbers). 24 of my flights have been free (apart from taxes) and my overall travel spend has reduced due to ex-Europe and BA sale prices.

So, what it would take for me NOT to fly BA

1. BA lose a shed load of slots from LHR

2. BA increase their fares significantly

3. BA somehow stop us Brits benefiting from ex-Europe tickets

4. BA close avios

5. A competitor who provides equal status and airmiles to enable my annual travel spend not to increase.

I know CW is dated but I still manage to sleep well. I know other airlines have superior products.

I think F is a total waste of money (nice if you are upgraded) and BA probably do not need to invest in Club on the basis of their loadings – however, as FDoS continually points out, they will need to invest at some point.

Welcome back JC,

and congrats to FDoS for having an income generating graduate… excellent

[Henryp1]

As LHR is my nearest airport I prefer to fly from there, generally the destinations I go to are covered by BA and I will use BA. I really don’t like changing planes during the journey as it adds unnecessary time for me which I can either use at my destination or be at home. Also a potential loss of baggage, I always check baggage in of at least one suitcase if not two, fortunately I have only had delayed baggage twice. Once on EK and another time on AF when I had changed planes.

I terms of BA, I use the carrier as first choice as I know the hard product so know what to expect. I do manage to rest well during the flights and this is important. The BAEC is a nice touch but not a deal breaker as I don’t credit all my flights depending who is paying and my destination. But I do appreciate that for some travellers lounge access does not come with their choice of ticket. I also like being able to understand the crew at all times, especially the in flight announcements. It’s a case of familiarity and knowing that I won’t have challenges being understood or understanding.

Overall I do believe that I gain value for my tickets and find the overall experience ok, but I feel very safe. These are both important considerations, just as I would never fly ex EU on BA due to the extra time and flights required. On average I take 3 to 4 long haul trips a month, often to the same destinations in both directions.

We were in Paris the other month and then had to travel onwards to SE Asia, rather than fly back to London we took QR onwards and then directly back to London. QR was very nice on the A380 in business class, but I don’t feel that I am missing out as BA and LHR are very convenient for me.

Potentially as a leisure traveller I may change my mind when time is not so important, but for the time being the quicker I can get home is the best result for us.

Henry

[SGJNI1961]

Having been BAEC Gold for a few years now and recognising that their premium cabins and lounges are not in the top their, this year I made a deliberate effort to fly with other OW airlines. This has usually ment AA or QR. I fly ex EU, usually DUB as price is important, I pay for my flights! Really, I just felt BA was always second best BUT, as with Martyn, I have had 20 or so European flights on points for almost nothing. I will continue to look beyond BA while keeping my GC but it will almost certainly be within OW. I flew UC with Virgin from LGW in May for the first time in years and it was very average, much the same as BA, so give me AA or CX or QR or QF most times until BA finally catch up with the others. Last week QR were offering AMS-SIN for €1700 in J FOR TWO! Why would I fly BA?

[GivingupBA]

I’ve often flown between HKG and the UK in J class. To me, BA are much superior to, for example, QR:
– QR are getting more and more expensive
– BA are nonstop
– the QR A330 from HKG is a much poorer J-class product than BA
– of course CX are very good, but are often very expensive and hardly have an ex-EU option
– so despite my user name I prefer BA, or CX when they lower their fares
– I like the BA Club World window seat

[AllOverTheGaff]

[quote quote=729608]I had been thinking of an equal and opposite thread, and asking the ABBA fans what it would take them to fly BA, not the ME3.[/quote]

Good thread, thanks Jonathan for the review and the topic.

I did venture back to BA having been absent for a long time late last year and early this year. I posted my findings on here, but the main factor in choosing BA was price. I forget how much I got CW for, but it was significantly less than the others I searched at the time and the timings were good, I was going EDI – LHR – GIG. Sadly, I regretted my miserly decision within minutes of boarding as Club World, for me, should no longer be classified as a business class product, the service and the offering not even close to the standards I now expect, and not only from the ME3, but also from some of the transatlantic carriers.

I flew back in 1st, then did another 3 returns in 1st class as I sourced some terrific fares. The product was good, not great, but good. Running out of port, twice, not having 1st choice of meal – twice, a dirty seat on one leg and the scrummage of boarding didn’t endear me to the airline. However, I did enjoy the experience overall and if I could score the same fare level, around £3300.00 1st return, I’d use them again. I think at circa £3.5K they run into more serious opposition, particularly in my experience with LH and their sublime 1st class product aboard the 747-8.

I am not meaning this to be a BA bashing thread, but the other huge consideration for me in not flying with them is LHR, every time I am there I loathe the experience. I have no other option if using BA as I am always connecting via LHR from EDI, but with routes from Scotland now being excellent either directly around Europe, or direct to US or via UAE headed eastwards, I really have no particular need for BA other than London jaunts, and now I am more prone to EZY via LGW as it adds little to my overall journey time to central London and the fare is generally a lot less expensive.

Interesting to read how successful the Avios programme is for some of the posters on the forum, I have a reward flight coming up in business from Kuala Lumpur to Tokyo in J, the fare quoted was over £1000.00 (by a variety of carriers) when I looked at it, so I was mightily pleased to get the flight for twenty quid taxes or so, I think what would tempt me back to flying with them would be if I was to read that in real life (EG not BA marketing speak) availability of reward seats improved significantly, and / or, if they refresh their cabins with a proper J class seat.

Regards.
AOTG.

[FDOS_UK]

[quote quote=730669]I’ve often flown between HKG and the UK in J class. To me, BA are much superior to, for example, QR:
– QR are getting more and more expensive
– BA are nonstop
– the QR A330 from HKG is a much poorer J-class product than BA
– of course CX are very good, but are often very expensive and hardly have an ex-EU option
– so despite my user name I prefer BA, or CX when they lower their fares
– I like the BA Club World window seat

[/quote]

This is an interesting insight (along with Martyn Sinclair’s) into why BA makes sense for some people and not others.

On my routes

– QR are always competitive
– BA are always indirect (so no advantgae over QR and a disadvantage to EK)
– the QR787 (or 777) is a superior aircraft to BA’s 777 or 747, as is the EK A380 (but not the EK777)
– the BA Club World window seat is a competent product, but not in the same league as the QR787 1-2-1 layout

It would seem we are a reasonably well informed community and pretty good at cost-benefit analysis in our own circumstance.

[FDOS_UK]

PS: to to add that I agree with GivingupBA’s assessment of the QR A330, which I used some years ago. It put me off using QR for several years. Lousy hard product.

[Celticplumber]

There was a time when I was very loyal to BA and collector of Airmiles / Avios. I still enjoy flying long haul with BA, but more often on leisure trips paid for with points and an Amex companion voucher these days. Other factors now come into play when I am paying for a ticket, but to get those Avios I find myself being loyal to Oneworld, rather than BA.

For example, being based “up north” I will use Cathay from MAN for New Zealand (or sometimes from AMS or DUS which can be materially cheaper than from MAN itself) and AA for the states. Later this year I am trying QF to Dubai which, thanks to their special offer advertised on this page, is half the cost of Emirates direct, or or BA via LHR.

What also puts me off travelling via LHR is the horrid arrival-security experience there. When I have been screened by Homeland Security a few hours earlier, it seems painful to queue to be re-screened at LHR to catch a shuttle back to MAN, so if I can fly directly into MAN I will do.

[FaroFlyer]

GivingUpBA wrote that CX fares ex EU are very difficult to find, and he is correct. Last year I could see, on ITA Matrix, that CX had a fare ex LIS to HKG of <€2,200. I tried every booking site that I could think of and not one came even close so, in desperation, I found a telephone number for CX Lisbon. They told me that they cannot sell tickets, but recommended a local travel agent near Faro who were able to get exactly the fare I was trying to buy. When I was BHX based the best deals on CX were from business travel agents, and it seems that is still the case.

I agree with FDOS_UK that most choose the carrier by route and convenience,. I could never understand the plaudits for the ME3, but my travel is mainly HKG or China, so stopping halfway will never be as convenient as stopping after an hour or so in LHR / AMS / CDG / HEL then having >10 hours in which to sleep. If I was going to the ME then I would certainly prefer an ME3 carrier as I also would not want to waste time to transfer in the ME.

I hardly ever see anyone on this forum mention VS. Does anyone know what their PE is like now? I have bookings for VS PE and BA CW from LAS in October and wonder how much “worse” VS PE will be. It is almost a daytime flight as it departs at 15:00 so no great chance of being tired enough for a decent sleep. I welcome comments and advice.

1 user thanked author for this post.

FDOS_UK

[TominScotland]

Slightly to the left of the core topic, maybe but I have more than justified my ‘loyalty’ to BA or, rather, oneworld just now. I am in Dubai next week on a very cheap Qatar Economy ticket. I needed to change my return date at short notice as my meetings in Dubai were re-scheduled. Qatar wanted £1,050 to change a £300 return ticket (EDI-DOH-DXB)!! I looked at single journey options. After dismissing various combinations of Wizzair/ Pegasus and Easyjet as too complex and risky (in terms of connections), the best was RJ coming in at a little over £400.

I then turned to my BAEC account and obtained a single back to GLA on BA for £173 plus a mere 13,000 Avios. Deal done. In addition, the BA routing leaves Dubai 6 hours after RJ and gets me to Glasgow on the same connection from LHR!!

[MrMichael]

Something that does strike me reading responses on here is how BA continue to do pretty well on Middle East routes, including Dubai and Doha. I have flown Qatar once in J earlier this year (Chennai – Doha as part of RTW)and agree the product was superior to BA’s. Not sure if like Australia it is feeder traffic from around Europe or if people actually prefer it. Avios etc do I am sure have an impact.

On the subject of BA upgrading its product, often on this forum BA’s race to the bottom is quoted. Never disagreed with the sentiment, I think BA is a solid 3.5 (three point five) star product and that is what it wants to be. The ME3 clearly have ambitions beyond that. Where people come unstuck is boarding a BA flight thinking they will get the five star treatment and then whine when they don’t. As with anything, if one sets ones expectations too high only disappointment will follow.

The other thing as mentioned, why would IAG/BA invest in a better product when loadings and margins tell them they don’t need to. Absolutely right, BA J is a tired product, but like a comfy old sofa it still serves the airline well, and the punters keep coming.

Edited to add, FDOS, my congrats to you and your son on his success. I say you too, offspring cannot do it without parents pushing. So well done both of you. I have my finger cross now for oldest offsprings O levels.

[AlanOrton1]

I’d venture I am more loyal to OW than to BA, though BA is my home airline / am gold with them.

Fortunately OW partners, in addition to BA, travel where I need to go, so I often have an option and if BA is not fairly comparable price wise (which it often isn’t travelling to Asia), I have no qualms in using other OW airlines.
Maintaining Gold is quite important to me as I feel a combination of the perks, plus assistance if things go wrong are valuable.
Second is the Avios programme, as I like to travel with MrsO once per year (absolutely no work to be involved), in F if possible, using the Amex 241.
As I suspect I don’t travel to quite the extent as some posters and so don’t accrue many hundreds of thousands of miles per year, I see this as a benefit.

Going back to CX being expensive, on my last two trips in J to Asia this year, ex LHR, I found CX to be the most competitive OW carrier. I think this was because I was not solely travelling to HKG, but also including PVG, PEK, SIN etc. I’m sure I don’t earn as many avios flying partner airlines, but if they cost similar, and often offer a better product, I find it an easy choice to make.

[TiredOldHack]

I’m pretty much with Martyn Sinclair on this.

I can get decent BA deals if I book a long time in advance, and decent deals out of European cities (flying back into the UK and then out), and while I recognise BA’s biz product isn’t the best, it’s certainly ‘good’. Good enough for me not to want to spend an extra £500-1000 elsewhere.

When I can get a OW deal elsewhere, I’ll take it – Finnair to China, for example (going next month). Finnair has a great business product and its fares are very reasonable. Flying Finnair to China via Helsinki is way cheaper than flying direct with BA, and you get more TPs as well.

The Avios and TPs carry weight as well – it would take me a long time to build up the equivalent elsewhere.

[Nogbad01]

I think AlanOrton1 got it bang on.

I too am OW loyal rather than BA loyal and will use the carrier with the best schedule and price for where I need to go.
BA is also my main airline and where I have the status (gold).

The collection of Avios is important to me as it gives me the chance for one or two long haul flights in F for two of us, each year.

On the whole I still like to use BA if possible, I personally like the CW Window seat when travelling alone, although the IFE could use an upgrade. But the main reason to chose BA is the crew. still the best there is IMHO.

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