[JonathanCohen09]

Hello all,

Nice to be back on the forum after a bit of a break. I have been reading the posts but have not felt the need to contribute.

The reason I decided to start this thread is that I have a question for all of the Forum’s most loyal BA fans and I am really curious to know the answer?

My question is this:

What would it take for you to decide not to fly BA to a destination that they have competition on or is the desire to accumulate tier points and avios the only thing that matters or do you really believe that the BA product is still superior to the competition?

The reason that I ask the question is that I just returned recently from a trip to Australia, my first time ever there.

Prior to going I did my research on the different options that I had in terms of airlines and also in terms of cost. I was flying business class.

I eventually decided to fly with Etihad from LHR – AUH – MEL and then SYD – AUH – LHR. I used Virgin Australia for the flight from MEL to SYD as they partner with Etihad. The fare I paid booking 8 weeks in advance was £2850. Emirates and Qatar Airways were both about £500 more but to my astonishment BA wanted over £4500 so almost £2000 more than Etihad to fly via Singapore to Sydney and back. So even if I thought there product was better I would not have used them due to the difference in price.

My overall experience with Etihad was among the best that I have ever experienced in every way. There was a car service to and from the airport at both ends of the journey. The lounges were all excellent with great food and drink options and great service. Randomly I was upgraded to First Class on the AUH – MEL sector and the F lounge in Abu Dhabi which was recently refurbished was fantastic.

My flights were A380, 777-300ER, A380 and A380.

All of my A380 sectors were in the Business Suite which is the best C hard product that I have ever flown in in every way. Very comfortable, 4 abreast on the upper deck. The food and drink was excellent on all sectors and the cabin crew were also really good on every sector, particularly on the 15 hour hop from SYD to AUH. There always seemed to be a crew member there when you needed them.

My flight from AUH to MEL was in a First Class Suite which was very comfortable and the bed one of the longest and most comfortable I have slept on. Only 8 F seats in the cabin. Excellent food and drink and an on board chef to cook your meals. Probably the best F flight I have been on.

I Have over the last couple of years flown a lot on BA in their F and J cabins as a number of my clients insist that I use them and when someone else is paying the fare I go on the carrier they want me to subject to some carriers I will not fly with for safety reasons.

I therefore am currently Exec Club Gold and so am well aware of the BA product offering on both their A380 and 777-300ER.

This is where I come to the point of my question. Why would anyone choose BA over, on this occasion , Etihad when the price was so much better and the hard product on both the ground and in the air is also so much better in my opinion.

On the A380 upper deck Etihad is 4 abreast, BA is 7 and most passengers do not have direct aisle access. Etihad also has an onboard lounge where you can sit and relax and meet other passengers or just give yourself a break from your seat on a really long flight.

On Etihad in J class you can dine when you want and there is an extensive menu with more choice than you get on BA.

On the 777 there are only 8 First Suites as opposed to the 14 in the BA F cabin. The Suites are bigger and give you more personal space that BA F seats and the food and drink in Etihad F class was, again in my opinion, much better than BA in terms of choice and quality.

The Etihad lounges at all the airports that I travelled from were in my view better than BA with a better selection of food and drink and more motivated and enthusiastic staff.

The only area where BA can compete with Etihad is when it comes to cabin crew. Depending on the crew that you get some of the BA staff I have flown with are amongst the best in the world and some are among the worst but that can be the same with any carrier and the BA crew I have flown with generally do their best to give the best service that they can with what they have to offer.

My apologies for the long post but I am genuinely keen to hear what BA regulars feel about the above. Do they agree about the hard product and service but fly BA anyway out of loyalty or is it something else that I have missed?

Regulars who know me are aware that I am not a great fan of BA but nor am I a BA basher so please do not let this thread turn into another of the propane con BA threads that we have all seen and dislike. If that does happen then I will ask for the thread to be removed.

Rather I would like to hear from the BA regulars what it is that makes them stay loyal or what they think they can do to get BA to do better.

I look forward to hearing what you have to say.

Safe travels everyone.

3 users thanked author for this post.

travelsforfun, peter19, DerekVH

[FDOS_UK]

Hi Jonathan

Although you are looking for BA feedback, I’d just like to say that I regard Etihad J as the best of the ‘ME3’ business classes by some distance – it is like a F- product.

I just did a DXB-DOH-MAN overnight with QR in J and whilst it is a very good product (772 and then 788, which has a great seat), it does not come near EY as an overall experience, also I did EK DXB-MAN last week in J on the A380 and that was (IMO) slightly better than QR, but again not in the same league as EY.

Just my tuppence.

On a personal mote, you might be interested to know that my son has just graduated with a first and starts his banking job next month. I know he is grateful for your advice 🙂

[peter19]

Jonathan,a nice post with a good feel for your experience.

I think the loyalty aspect certainly counts for many and on this length of journey it might be regarded as a instant status gain or jump. More on the price point, if it was marginally more it might be factored in that it could be worth it based on the return you are able to get get for doing a trip if your loyalty is focused on BA.
However, on the price you mention plus the product it sounds as if your choice was the right one…

Glad you had a great flight/trip experience.

[MrMichael]

A couple of things to note on your post Jonathon.

Why people choose BA very often is the case of price. A similar routing ex EU for instance in BA Club from say Oslo can be had (I have done it) from around the £1800 mark. Yes, ex LHR does not offer good value generally, and like you I would choose another carrier for such a saving and a better class of service. In reality a good proportion of BA,s loading screen are fed in to LHR from around Europe.

The product (I have experience of QR) certainly is of a higher standard than BA. The ME3 are hell bent on market penetration and once they think they are there then I can see service levels deteriorating (some say QR have started already). BA is a solid product (3-4 star) that suits many people, the ME3 with their 4-5 star service suits others. Many people don’t shop around like people on this forum, but will just book on an airline they know does the trip. So BA is a natural choice for many UK citizens, and along with the feeder traffic gives BA loadings where they don’t have to compete on price from the UK.

The question I ask myself, particularly with the traditional Far East airlines struggling on the Kangaroo route is why BA does not increase capacity and offer keener pricing.

[FDOS_UK]

[quote quote=729469]
The question I ask myself, particularly with the traditional Far East airlines struggling on the Kangaroo route is why BA does not increase capacity and offer keener pricing.

[/quote]

It’s a low yield route, BA can only service it by using mixed fleet and charging the prices they cahrge.

[FaroFlyer]

Jonathan, thanks for the thread. I think one big factor is route. I certainly like BA, and am LTG. That does not give me blind loyalty to BA but means that I will always consider them. I find some of the anti BA sentiments on this forum to be somewhat strange. I had been thinking of an equal and opposite thread, and asking the ABBA fans what it would take them to fly BA, not the ME3.

As I said, I think the biggest factor is route, and also the traveller’s age. I have tried EK to HKG, and found the product variable – 3 different Business class seats in 4 sectors. I also tried RJ simply to maximise BA Tier Points.

I would certainly be open to the ME3 on the kangaroo routes, but for SE Asia it is like going back to the late 80s / early 90’s where you are woken halfway through the night to get off a plane, stand in the terminal for an hour or so, in those days under armed guard, then get back on a plane. Why would you do this now, to SE Asia, just to avoid BA; LH; VS; KL; CX; SQ or AF? As I said, I can understand the ME3 on the kangaroo route, but not SE Asia.

Price is one of my biggest considerations and we are planning a Europe to SYD trip in February. Cheapest, of the major carriers, including ME3 but not Russian, Indonesian or Indian, is BA at ~ €2,300 followed by QR at €2,500. Why would I pay more to avoid an airline where I have LTG status? Maybe QR or EY have better beds, but if anything goes wrong my BA status increases my chance of a good resolution, and also gives me a vague chance of an upgrade.

Not blind loyalty to BA but a practical approach to minimise cost and maximise leverage.

[FDOS_UK]

I had been thinking of an equal and opposite thread, and asking the ABBA fans what it would take them to fly BA, not the ME3.

– direct flights from the regions
– better products (apart from WTP)
– competitive pricing

I’m not ABBA, but they are well down my list for the routes I fly, as they are poor value – for this last trip, BA quoted £2,200+ for MAN/LHR/DXB and QR got the business at £906, with a hassle free change at Doha (no need to reclear security) and lounges in a different league to BA, at MAN (much worse than BA), DOH (light years ahead) and Dubai (light years ahead and much less crowded than the BA lounge).

Also had direct aisle access on the longer segments (1-2-1 layout).

[icenspice]

Hello Jonathan

‘ What would it take for you to decide not to fly BA to a destination that they have competition on or is the desire to accumulate tier points and avios the only thing that matters or do you really believe that the BA product is still superior to the competition? ‘

Neither.

For starters, the BA schedule from LUX is hopeless with the second daily flight arriving at LHR T3 well after 2100. Not ideal for connections.

I am also very tired of LHR.

And, I would like to try out new airlines such as LOT and Aegean which have started flying from here.

(Well done FDOS Jnr….not too many of those around. I wish you all the best in your career. And don’t take any lip from your Dad!)

[JonathanCohen09]

Thanks to all who have commented so far for your comments, especially given that you had to read through a rather long post.

All of the comments make sense and I see the merit to all of them from both sides. That is why I posed the question in the first place.

I completely forgot that ex EU you can get excellent fares on BA so my apologies for not taking that into account. I was focused on ex LHR as that is where I started from.

It is nice to see this forum at a place where we seem to have lost those people who slavishly support or bash BA for a group who will sensibly make points and give their opinions without fear of being attacked personally for them.

I would like to pose another question while I am ahead.

Do any of you have any thoughts why BA did not take advantage of of the arrival of their A380’s, 787-800/900 and 777-300ER’s to update the F and CW cabins to bring them more in line with or get ahead of the competition. When it first came out CW was the product to catch up with so I am not sure why BA seems happ to let themselves fall behind?

Could it be that they do not need to update the product as their are still so many people who will fly with them despite their being better products out there. Even AA are now 4 abreast in J class and the other American carriers are offering direct aisle access. I never thought that any US carrier would have a better hard product than BA.

Again, I would love to hear people’s thoughts?

[JonathanCohen09]

FDOS_UK – many congratulations to your son and I am delighted if I was able to assist. Please tell him that he is free to get in touch with me any time he wants to if there is anything he is not sure about.

[FDOS_UK]

Do any of you have any thoughts why BA did not take advantage of of the arrival of their A380’s, 787-800/900 and 777-300ER’s to update the F and CW cabins to bring them more in line with or get ahead of the competition.

Difficult to say, without insider knowledge, but possibly a combo of

– cost/cashflow – BA let the fleet get very old; fleet replacement cost swere not trivial, so perhaps the prioirty was frames, not seats

– competitive edge – Heathrow maybe provides what other airlines seek by better producst?

– lack of strategic ambition and a focus on cost containment?

– another cunning plan, that we don’t see?

[icenspice]

Just a thought…I suppose many passengers are blindly loyal to BA and its Executive Club without being aware of what is offered by competitors.

[JonathanCohen09]

icenspice – that is an interesting point you make particularly as I used to be one of those people until I became a frequent flyer agnostic. It took awhile but I managed to break free of my slavish loyalty and now I save a lot of money and enjoy better products and service.

I am lucky as my clients will pay for premium cabins and so I enjoy all the perks of higher tier status without having to have spent the money necessary to achieve it.

If enough others did the same then BA would have no choice but to catch up again on the competition.

[FDOS_UK]

Another point.

On various fora, some posters suggest they look for the Chatham House tail and feel at home as soon as they walk on baord – one can obviously see the attraction. Also, the PA announcements by BA pilots are often stated to be reaasuring, because of the accent.

Personally, whilst there are some airlines I would not fly on, because of behavioour I’ve observed first hand (Egyptair, for example), I would be just as happy to come home on most other European airlines, maybe because I have spent a lot of time working in Europe and lived in Malta for 10 years.

e.g. I did a run of work in Dammam, KSA and when the Privatair captain made his announcement in German accented English or the cabin crew welcomed me aboard with the same Schweiz Deutsch twang, at the end of that part of the engagement, I felt immediately safe and amongst friends. THey would also let me have a glass of something nice nealry as soon as the wheels were up, as opposed to waiting to exit KSA airspace.

Perhaps the less you have experienced life in another community, the more you might be drawn towards your own flag carrier?

[DavidGordon10]

Although this thread was addressed to loyal BA fans, I thought I would write a note from the perspective of someone who keeps up his gold cards in the two other alliances.

As I am based partly in Geneva and partly in London, BA is not the most obvious choice much of the time. Much of my travel is short haul and economy, and the gold cards are important for breakfast/lunch/dinner/drinks in the lounge when dashing from one place to the next. That saves a lot of money.

The most important considerations for mid- or long-haul travel are cost, convenience of route, and timing: followed by the choice of airline alliance as a secondary consideration. The range (and sometimes unusual-ness) of my destinations (Quito, Brazzaville, Yangon, Alma-Ata etc.) mean that the Star Alliance and Sky Team are often more suitable than BA, and the gulf airlines are not always relevant.

I am pretty relaxed about individual airlines – Egyptair, Turkish, Aeroflot, various Chinese airlines are all fine by me.

When I read again about problems checking in at T5, or at baggage reclaim there, I often feel like posting – try another airline, try another terminal.

1 user thanked author for this post.

FDOS_UK

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