[lesmclaren]

Very interesting to note that the BA rush to the bottom is now impacting long haul. The BA “lovvies” over several years in this forum have trotted out the excuse that it is “only” BA short haul that is trying to outdo the budget airlines because BA makes little or no money on short haul routes.
I and I am sure many others have long suspected that it is the whole of BA going downhill, a fact supported by the continuing news of more cuts and ever increasing number of seats being added to both short and long haul aircraft. At least [or I may have missed it!] this was not blamed on the open lie of “customer feedback” this time!
And for those that may recognize my previous contributions, yes I have voted with my feet and for all available short haul routes I now use KLM even if it means a stop over in AMS. Not only do I get a far better level of service than BA but I also get hugely increased options for to fly to airports other than LHR in the UK.
BA have lost the plot, other airlines have successfully down graded by offering second tier options [KLM with Tranavia being an example]. BA should realize the potential in maintaining their previously highly regarded name by marketing [sadly a word that appears to be a lost cause within BA] BA as a more premium offering and upsell Veuling as their “budget” offering.
Last thought – Regrettably there seems to be no response to esselle’s original open letter from BA, but then that is the norm these days and underlines their “take the money while we can get it and screw the passenger as much as possible” attitude. Very sad.

[rferguson]

lesmclaren – in fairness I don’t think BA will reply to esselle’s letter on here. There is a multitude of ‘dear alex’ letters online and as far as I know none have been replied to which is not unusual for any large corporation. I don’t think i’ve ever seen an official BA rep reply on this forum. It would be a full time job if they did!

As you say there is much to complain about at BA at the moment. Buy on board on shorthaul, an outdated Club World product and a reduced offering in World Traveller. I don’t have a strong negative opinion on the ‘ten across’ decision on BA’s 777’s. I think more airlines fly their aircraft in this configuration now than those that don’t. In honesty it’s been a long time coming and will (so far) affect 25 of a fleet of 40 plus.

Back to Esselles original post. As I said earlier this is down to crew not delivering the product to standard which absolutely is not on. I work in First a lot and the standard is hot towels after take off and before landing. They towels are always loaded – WOWWW we even get better ones than the damp rags in CW now. Perhaps the removed flower from the F lav paid for them 🙂 I cannot for the life of me understand why the crew didn’t undertake this task. I can honestly say hand on heart that i’ve never worked in F on a flight where one of us have said ‘oh let’s not bother with the towels today’. The ‘CSD hello’ I agree can be hit and miss.

Alex did announce his ‘Plan 4’ on Monday and thankfully the gist of it is an admission that BA are lagging behind the competition in many respects and that money (lots of it) needs to be spent on bringing it up a level (or six). Of course the devil will be in the detail but £400m on Club World is nothing to sniff at. Let’s just say things can only get better on that front.

What was missing (so far) from the comms was any mention of further investment in First. And the reason for this is First is one of the least profitable cabins on the aircraft. The amount of passengers paying an actual First Class fare just don’t cover the extra floor space/crew complements/catering etc to justify further investment. BA’s bread and butter are corporate contracts across the atlantic. Unlike the 90’s when First used to be full to the brim with senior corporate staff this has become less and less and the majority of passengers in First are now on redemption tickets, promotional upgrades etc etc.

Of course you could argue that if BA offered something TRULY amazing in F more people would be prepared to pay big bucks for it. Well we all know how BA likes to make a buck. I’m sure they’ve crunched their numbers and looked at the competition and realised this just doesn’t stack up. LH offers a superb F product for example but have made a huge reduction on the number of long haul aircraft that operate the cabin. The Gulf carriers….well I think it will forever be a constant case of ‘mine is bigger than yours’ from now until infinity on the First front. Qatar bucks the trend here only having F on the 380.

US and european carriers have either done away with F or severely reduced the amount of aircraft offering the product. Even among the asian carriers where First Class was traditionally on the large majority of long haul aircraft several have started reducing the offering – CX and MH to name a couple.

I wouldn’t be surprised when BA FINALLY installs a new CW seat the number of aircraft with First Class will be slashed.

Has First Class had its day?

**Personal opinions only**

[MartynSinclair]

“Of course you could argue that if BA offered something TRULY amazing in F more people would be prepared to pay big bucks for it”

The same could be said for J on BA… As I have stated on many occasions, I pay less for J seats now than 8 or 9 years ago. In addition, each J seat comes with several free European flights courtesy of avios.

I posted a few years ago that an excellent “Concord class” – mixing F and J, would be a class leader. Instead BA have an inferior J product and an F product that is nearly a J product..

[esselle]

Thanks for your comments. I wasn’t expecting a reply from BA, but equally knew I would not get one if I contacted them directly.

rferguson my criticisms were far more wide ranging than not receiving a towel (although despite your view I confirm I don’t think I’ve had a towel in F for many years) and more focused on the general slackness and attrition in and around anything which may historically have made F a bit special.

Little Chef +, with a comfy bed.

[oneworldflier101]

To add a few comments from my recent f trip to HK.

Concorde Room – was awful – same fly problem as in First Lounge – I mentioned to the Manager – he said they have tried to kill them at night but it didnt work. Sat in table service food area – ordered the lemon sole – was a tiny rolled up dry piece of fish – worse than a school dinner. I sent it back and asked for the Pork. Was so tough I ate the bacon but the 2 other cuts of pork were inedible. I did advise the staff, they said it was a new menu but would be on for a few months.

Flight – crew both ways were excellent on the a380 – food quality and choice poor, wines downgraded, you now made me realise we didn’t get hot towels either direction on take off or landing, with no amuse bouche, no tasting menu, and no nice fish option like the old days it was less than Club quality food. Plus no snacks during the night (I was told to try the club kitchen where there was hardly anything left).

So completely agree, comfortable bed, but overall BA should be ashamed it should not be called First class. And the Concorde room – worst food I have had since it opened and have had some very memorable dishes, a £5 voucher for Pret would have been preferred.

[seasonedtraveller]

This is such a coincidence because, following my recent flights in Business class with QR (LHR/DOH/PEK/DOH/LHR) I was seriously considering writing to Mr Cruz myself. The reason being how genuinely shocked I was a the vast difference between the QR offering vs that of BA. It was my 1st time on QR and it’s left a very positive impression. True to say that the overall experience travelling in business with QR was above and beyond that of travelling in First with BA. From the cabin crew to the lounges, the food (dine at will) and of course, the seating, a much nicer experience all round.

My most recent long haul in ‘C’ with BA have been very poor – as Esselle says no hot towels (excuse from cabin crew when I asked was “oops, we forgot” – strangely, it was the same excuse from the crew on the return sector).
The Concorde room, I’ve found to be disappointing since I originally got the card. The onboard welcome at seat seems to have gone the same way as the flower in the loo.

I’ve used one of my vouchers to move into First on Saturday’s flight to BOM (otherwise they can be extremely difficult to use) but I’m sure it will be another mediocre experience.

I have (only) once flown in First with LH and thought the experience was quite amazing.

I know that there will be some who advocate using other carriers instead of BA but some of us don’t have much choice.
Glad to hear from RFerguson that Mr Cruz has at least recognised that BA have fallen way behind.

[WillsWilliams]

I’ve been a long time lurker on this forum but this is my first post because I am genuinely curious to know the answer – if you are so disappointed with the BA product and have choice over your carrier, – if it’s subpar, it’s expensive, Xairline is far superior – then why do you continue to fly BA?

I have zero loyalty to any airline or alliance. My aim is to JUST reach Emerald for OW and Gold for Star and then use which carrier I prefer for a particular journey – sometimes choosing a carrier not in either alliance. I travel long haul business class every six weeks (primarily to Japan) and thankfully provided I stick within a travel budget i’m able to choose my own carrier and if i’m honest I enjoy the variety. I generally amass a good amount of miles/points so generally the only time I fly First Class is due to bump ups or miles redemptions.

On this forum as others I am always amazed at the irony of many of these ‘BA are dreadful’ posts. The post usually includes statements like ‘this is my third BA flight in First this year that has been terrible’ or ‘I hope my BA flight in March is better’. I don’t get it. Surely if a service provider is not meeting your needs and expectations you vote with your feet and try the competition? You aren’t in any contract (well I guess some travellers are part of corporate negotiated contracts). But for those whom are free to choose their carrier – WHY?

I’m also amazed at some of the exaggerations and OTT claims. Like Concorde Room food being ‘like a school dinner’. Seriously? Admittedly i’ve only gained admittance twice over the past year (my previous visit was week before last) but i’ve found it to be pleasant and the food to be very good (pix attached).

Admittedly I much prefer the LH or LX First Class experience on the ground and in the air but BA must be doing something right – it surely must have the most First Class seats in the air of any Western airline?

I recently had the pleasure of being upgraded to First Class on Qatar Airways on their A380. I was super excited but the reality was given the extremely high standard of their Business Class I couldn’t help but feel a little underwhelmed. My most memorable First Class experience was a miles redemption on JAL. Besides everything about it being WOW i’ll never quite forget when the flight attendant offered me slippers. I accepted and thought she was placing them on the floor next to my feet. No. She continued to untie my laces, remove my shoes and place the slippers on me. It was most uncomfortable but I did not want to offend. Also I must say the Concorde Room is an absolute luxurious haven compared to the JAL first class lounge in NRT. I used a miles redemption on AA to MIA for pleasure travel a couple months ago and had reasonable expectations given their super Business Class product on the 777-300. BA First trumped it in every respect.

Anyway – crux on my post. The only power you really have is to vote with your feet. If you want a decent First product at decent value using miles or cash to upgrade BA is fine and for me never unpleasant. If you want a truly luxurious First experience try elsewhere.

[oneworldflier101]

Hi WillsWilliams

I fly BA for all the other reasons – schedule, direct flights, european flights, avios, safety, crew good etc.

Just because I think the quality of their products is continually downgraded doesn’t mean I have to walk with my feet – if you live in London/SE UK then unless you only travel to certain parts of the world, to focus on say a MEast airline, then BA is essential. I have been on Qatar, Cathay etc and most are way better (as you admit) and sometimes I fly those and sometimes fly BA.

My experience of the Concorde room was awful, I wish I had taken photos – if you try their new menu (and the manager told me the feedback had been the same) the small circle of sole and dry pork were inedible. BA do nothing with the feedback. I have had the discussion about the flies in the lounge umpteen times this year with the Premier BA person at T5 and still nothing has been done.

Again on Board the space and comfort are fine, but why should we not highlight to BA when food quality, wine quality, amenities (personally I think the Elemis products in Club are better than the cheap First mens ones – have you tried to use the deodorant or gloopy shave gel) are continually downgraded. I would just prefer BA listen and improve. As many have said BA first is like a good business product on another airline, and club world is this weirdly over-dense design that can only be to maximise revenue not passenger comfort (as you either have to jump to reach the aisle or if you have an aisle seat, get woken up each time someone else does).

FYI I am happy with the switch to M&S food on shorthaul to improve quality. But the way it was presented was unclear as it was all about the M&S food, and hardly a mention that you would also now have to pay for drinks as well.

[WillsWilliams]

Completely agree with you Oneworldflier101. And you highlight why an airline like BA can offer sub par product and still command huge profits, demand and a loyal following.

BA/IAG are not renowned for splashing cash to enhance products unless they desperately have to. Just look at Club World – and that is the carriers most profitable cabin apparently!

[AlanOrton1]

WillsWilliams – welcome to the forum, always a good place for healthy debate.

(I wouldn’t disagree with anything you’ve said).

[FDOS_UK]

if you are so disappointed with the BA product and have choice over your carrier, – if it’s subpar, it’s expensive, Xairline is far superior – then why do you continue to fly BA?

I don’t fly with BA, unless there is a VERY good reason – otherwise, the airline is Best Avoided, as it cannot deliver a consistent product or service.

[lesmclaren]

rferguson – Always good and appreciated to hear your frank, honest and open replies. When I lived in W London in the 80/90’s I had several friends who were CSD’s. That of course was when BA was a highly respected airline and tried hard at customer satisfaction. I am sure those that are still with us are happy they are retired and those that sadly are not are turning in their graves!!

RF + Estelle – my remark about BA replying to the forum letter was very tongue in cheek! I also take RF’s comment that BA would need to employ a full time team just to comment on the forum, let alone all the other correspondence they get – and how sad is that!!. Bottom line is that BA have probably not been able to program Bots to make the forum replies, given the quality [sic] and normally largely irrelevant replies I have received and seen from BA “Customer Service” they can only be computer generated and without any human input. Maybe as AI advances we will see some improvement in that area!!

[icenspice]

Good evening esselle

If you are going to criticize the FA’s pronunciation of the wine, I would learn how to spell it correctly.

This forum is awash with double standards.

[FDOS_UK]

I have to ask – which spelling do you take exception to?

[Andrew66]

I think the wine mentioned was Mersault , which is correctly spelt as Meursault and pronounced mur soh , or meur soh .

[Author]

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