[craigwatson]

The major reason for no autopilot takeoff is this is the most crucial phase of flight, literally 1 second can make a difference in what is decided. (for example, 1 second before V1 and you lose an engine, you abort the takeoff, but at exactly V1 you would continue with the take off with a failed engine and circle to land). The time it would take the pilot to analyze and take back control from the AP could be crucial seconds lost. That is why manufacturers have never designed an auto takeoff system.

[Papillion53]

Thanks craigwatson – I understand now. Gosh it really brings it home how there really is very little or no margin for error and when you think of how many flights are in the air every day …….. It puts mithering about GnT in a plastic glass in perspective!

[IanFromHKG]

I remember some years ago taking an internal flight in the Philippines in a very modestly sized plane, and all passengers were weighed while holding their hand luggage. This occurred in a tiny hut and the results were yelled across the room, much to the memsahib’s mortification as she was heavily pregnant at the time! She was NOT happy…

Back to the original subject. I have been fortunate enough not to have been discommoded by an overweight neighbour on a plane, although I have experienced all sorts of other problem neighbours. I do remember on one domestic US flight seeing with horror an extremely large gentleman heading towards my row. Thank goodness he was across the aisle, as it happened, much to my relief. He had brought his own extension belt, which was between two and three feet long, but still seemed a snug fit. Being his neighbour in an economy seat – even if he had been able to fit into it – would have been unbearable.

I have mixed emotions on the issue. I am tall and therefore heavier than a shorter person of similar build. Should I be penalised? Well, the end result is that I *am* penalised because I end up with no legroom in economy and an aching back, but neither of these impact my neighbours. So I have some sympathy for people who may simply be a larger build through no fault of their own. Then again, if I want to buy an extra-legroom seat for my own comfort, there would be a cost (well, except on CX or AA where I get them free due to my oneworld status – possibly other airlines too). I also do find it a bit annoying that people who are heavily overweight may end up taking 200kg of people and bags on the plane for no extra charge, whereas if I have 150kg in total then my bags will be well over the limit (yes, I am well under 100kg!) and I would have to pay.

The real issue, though, is the neighbours. My view is that if you can’t fit into your own seat, you should be required to purchase an extra seat (if some airlines want to give that seat away, fine). If that is because of a medical condition – well, I am sorry, but that is just something you have to accept as a cost of the condition, just like buying support clothing, medication or whatever. Just my two penn’orth

[canucklad]

I concur with Ian……but would go further, as an adult it is my responsibility to understand how I can be respectful to my fellow passengers.

Behaviour or otherwise.

And otherwise means knowing my personal boundaries and respecting others personal space.

I’ve been the victim on more occasions than I can recall, but two that come to mind are

1) Being moved from my (2) aisle seat (AMS-BOS) to being stuck in the middle of a 5 seats on the BOS to MSP leg …..I’m not skinny, just averaged size. I was CRUSHED for 3 hours, in between people of size, who ate their carry on McDonalds and the in-flight service, had more laptops than PC World, they talked across me……Did the CC recognise my angst and discomfort….Well No……As a side note my small piece of hand luggage was removed off me because these other passengers had 2 bags each!!

2) On an AF flight back from HK, I had to endure the sickly pungent smell of the 2 French women behind me, they clearly didn’t believe in personal hygiene…..Think Granny’s and incontinence = sweaty clothes!! I truly felt sorry for the people in the adjoining row who couldn’t stomach dinner and spent most of the flight under their blanket…..Once again CC ?????

Just no respect at all…..

To counter the above spent a rather nice hour, with 2 gregarious Barbadian woman of size on a flight from EDI to LHR….The crew had to move 1 of the 3 a row back so they could be comfortable!!

Ultimately what airlines need to remember is that I pay just as much if not more for my flight, and as such should not be penalised because of others.

[AnthonyDunn]

@ canucklad – 27/11/2012 10:24 GMT

Surely the conundrum here is between certain pax on the one hand trying to have their cake and eat it (literally, it would appear, on the basis of your comments above!) by not paying for extra seating and expecting other pax and the airline to accommodate their (emphasis on “their) needs. On the other hand, airlines endeavouring both to accommodate their pax needs and not being seen to discriminate against the horizontally challenged presumably because they reckon they will then receive shed loads of flak in the meedjah if they take a stand against the p*** taking tendencies of some.

[Papillion53]

I am not unusually tall – 5’8″ bare feet but sometimes my knees are almost touching the seat back in front – thinking only Y here of course!! There have been lots of time when I’ve been sat next to a guy, and he has adopted the splayed legs stance across into my space, and I’ve had to quickly “leg off” the boundary, usually with an “accidental bump” and a smile – works a treat every time! The DH is guilty of this too, but it’s a different story having your other half attach his leg to you!!

It must be difficult if you are very tall as you have no choices on leg room when you fly UK domestic.

[Desertexpat13]

This was just posted on TRAVEL MOLE website.

Airlines face lawsuit after death of obese woman who was refused a flight home

Airlines are facing a possible multi-million dollar lawsuit after a clinically obese woman died while on holiday in Hungary after she was refused a seat on three flights back to New York where she needed medical treatment.

Vilma Soltez, who weighed over 30 stone and had only one leg and used a wheelchair, died from health complications nine days after she was kicked off the first of the three flights.

She was unable to board due to issues with seat extensions and wheelchairs and other equipment that would not hold her weight.

She had travelled to her summer home in Hungary with Delta and KLM Airlines but had reportedly put on weight during her trip.

According to a report in the New York Post, the couple’s travel agent had told Delta/KLM before the trip that she needed to return home on October 15 to continue with medical treatment for kidney problems and diabetes.

But her husband Janos claimed the couple were told they could not fly on their original Delta/KLM flight from Hungary because the aircraft did not have the necessary seat extension.

He said they were directed to drive to Prague for a Delta/KLM flight home. At Prague, Soltez could not be transferred to the flight because equipment could not be found that would hold her weight.

Their New York travel agent then found them another flight with Lufthansa, via Frankfurt, but this was not viable for the same reasons despite three seats being available for the passenger.

According to reports, a local fire crew were bought in to help move her into the seats but they could not lift her out of her wheelchair.

Delta, KLM and Lufthansa have issued statements explaining their reasons for being unable to accommodate her.

Lufthansa said: “Lufthansa, together with its local partners, fire brigade and technical experts at Budapest Airport, tried its utmost to accommodate this passenger on board our flight from Budapest.

“After several, time consuming attempts it was decided that for the safety of this passenger and the over 140 fellow passengers, Lufthansa had to deny transportation of the passenger. Safe and reliable operations are Lufthansa’s paramount priorities at all times.”

Lawyers are now considering legal action against the airlines for violating laws protecting the disabled.

http://www.travelmole.com/news_feature.php?c=setreg&region=2&m_id=s~s~bnmm&w_id=8478&news_id=2004124

[canucklad]

Mmmmmmm…….

Don’t see this getting very far…..as tragic a case as it is…..just how much weight did she put on??

If medical attention was that urgent, surely a medic flight home would have been organised.

This is a classic case of the airlines for once behaving responsibly to the majority of other passengers, although I suspect that it had more to do with the logistics of getting the poor woman on board…or not as the case may be.

This might sound harsh, but what happens to this woman if the aircraft has to be suddenly evacuated ?

And say , she was onboard the AF plane that crashed in YYZ all those years ago.

How much do you think the lawyers would be asking for, because the airline couldn’t evacuate her!

[AnthonyDunn]

“After several, time consuming attempts it was decided that for the safety of this passenger and the over 140 fellow passengers, Lufthansa had to deny transportation of the passenger. Safe and reliable operations are Lufthansa’s paramount priorities at all times.”

Lawyers are now considering legal action against the airlines for violating laws protecting the disabled.

This really does sound like lawyers ambulance chasing. I can just imagine the fuss if the airline had tried to crane her onboard and then had an accident when the equipment failed/seats collapsed… It gets to the point when people have to be told to stop sheltering behind disability legislation and to take some responsibility for themselves. She had already lost one leg owing to her diabetes and then allowed herself to put on even more weight…

[Edski777]

To put things in perspective i read some Dutch newspapers about this incident as well.

The lady weighed 193 kilo (well over 425 lbs) and had travelled from the US to Hungary. She had booked 2 seats. When her condition deteriorated in Hungary she refused to see a Hungarian doctor because “they don’t know me and the medical standards are the same as during the communist era”. It seems to me her own prejudice might have contributed to her death as much as her condition.
Her husband has now filed a lawsuit in the US (known for their objective legal system) against several airlines. He is probably hoping for a settlement out of court.
However sad it is that the lady died, it looks very much as if the airlines did everything they could in trying to accommodate this lady and her family.The airlines follow simple rules and procedures. If you’re too sick to travel or otherwise incapable of travelling: go see a local doctor and get treatment.
The whole case looks more like trying to squeeze money from an unfortunate incident by some shrewd lawyers.

[christopheL]

The French version of this sad event also says that the woman (a native from Hungary) refused to see an hungarian doctor.

http://www.air-journal.fr/2012-11-27-trois-fois-privee-de-vol-une-passagere-obese-meurt-561842.html

If this is true, I wonder why Travel Mole didn’t mention it.

[AnthonyDunn]

From the air-journal.fr article, the husband is now seeking US$6million from the “offending” airlines. Wonder where and by whom that figure was derived?

[DontTurnRight]

The fact of the matter is as a passenger, you should know your limitations. If you weigh 30 stone, then you don’t purchase a single economy ticket and expect to be accommodated. On the same basis as luggage, there should be a size/weight restriction depending on the seat type/class which is clearly communicated prior to anyone purchasing the ticket. Logically too passenger weight and luggage should be combined into one allowance, with lighter weight passengers being allowed a higher baggage allowance. Maersk Air tried this a few years back. That said, it would be a nightmare to manage and as such is probably best avoided.

On a similar basis if you are disabled, you again ensure you have made sufficient arrangements with the airline in advance, so that seating and other arrangements can be finalized prior to turning up at the airport. Your own experience and that of other passengers will be significantly improved as a result.

On a lighter note, take a look at the Air Malta flight going out pf LHR, where invariably five or six wheelchair passengers board at LHR. Some form of miracle cure must take place in flight, as on landing at Malta, a good number of these passengers often seem to hop off the plane with no problem at all and make a beeline for the terminal.

[FormerlyDoS]

rjb

Re your last para, made me laugh because it is so true 😉

[MartynSinclair]

rjb – have witnessed the reverse in Orlando, where able bodied pax resort to wheelchairs on arrival to q jump the immigration line…

[Author]

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