[Rferguson2]

I wanted to reply to the ‘poor long-haul BA experience’ but the thread has been closed for some reason.

I am far from being a BA flag waver (indeed I have often been critical of them in threads on this forum) but I think that sometimes a bit of a balanced view is beneficial especially when comparing BA to the European and US competition across the Atlantic.

Credit where credit is due, BA’s Club Suite is an excellent hard product and is now available on the majority of their (massive) long haul fleet. Catering has also seen a step up and whilst it won’t win any awards but I have hard far worse on competitors across the atlantic. Service can also be hit and miss but I appreciate BA crews ability to get a service done fairly swiftly and professionally, especially on a night flight.

Of course one of the big pulls in flying BA is its non stop network from the UK and the number of US cities it serves. Yes, Virgin may have a great product but the fact is, they just don’t fly to enough destinations.

Another major draw of course is the Executive Club. For me, Gold status is worth it. I use BA short haul fairly regularly to commute and access to the First Wing at LHR, the CX F lounge in T3 and the QF Lounges are going to keep me coming to BA.

But let’s consider the competition. I will only list the products I have actually flown across the Atlantic in J personally.

Lufthansa. I do not like anything about them. Their lounges are like a dentists waiting room, their onboard hard product makes BA look like Qatar and indeed their ‘new’ business class announced in 2018 is now delayed until 2024.

KLM. LOVE them. IF you can get a flight on one of the few aircraft in their fleet that has a seat with direct aisle access. The overwhelming majority of the KLM long haul fleet still adopt an old school 2x2x2 seating. I was fortunate to fly them in J on the 787-9 with the new seat which was great. The crew I think are the best in the skies. The catering – meh.

Air France – probably one of the best in terms of hard product and catering. All long haul aircraft on transatlantic routes feature direct aisle access. Great food, service hit and miss.

Swiss – I found them underwhelming. The hard product is OK. Dated, with most seats having direct aisle access although not all. Nothing felt particularly premium about them. Food was good, crew were nice but there just weren’t enough of them. The service took a long long time.

Austrian – again, dated product, no direct aisle access for all. Nice crew, GREAT food.

Iberia – actually pretty good. Consistent hard product (all direct aisle access), decent food, nice lounges in MAD. I found the service pretty surly however.

TAP – Similar to Iberia. Very good consistent hard product on wide bodied aircraft (1-2-1), good food, service depends on the day.

American – personally, one of my favourites. Fairly consistent hard product (ex LHR anyway), simple tasty food of good quality and I have always had friendly, no faff service.

Virgin Atlantic – it is just not a brand for me. The whole too cool for skool vibe and every thing that can be printed on has some innuendo splashed on it. No. Also, the Executive Club is more appealing due to Oneworld Emerald. The VS lounge at LHR kicks BA’s butt but that isn’t going to help me when I am flying Qantas from Singapore or Australia or Cathay from HK.

Delta, United, Brussels Airlines, SAS, Finnair and Jetblue I have never flown across the atlantic but I am very keen to try Jetblue some time.

18 users thanked author for this post.

sparkyflier, theflyingnurse, Catalina, Swissdiver, maxgeorge, FormerBA, YorkshireTraveller, Johnnyg, FaroFlyer, esselle, cwoodward, AndrewinHK, christ, MartynSinclair, Ekond222, fqtvgla, AMcWhirter, DavidSmith2

[AJDC]

Interesting view.

I parted company with BA, when it started charging for seat selection in business class. Thanks to the universe that Virgin and Delta exist for when I want to travel across the Atlantic.

1 user thanked author for this post.

YorkshireTraveller

[BackOfThePlane]

@Rferguson2 – I can still see the BA thread you refer to?

[DavidSmith2]

@Rferguson2 – I can still see the BA thread you refer to?

The thread is still there, but closed for comments. Not sure why though – maybe a technical issue? As I was the last person to post on that thread, I hope I didn’t offend anyone!

[fqtvgla]

I agree with your comments about having BA Exec status but I find the club suite bed lumpy, uncomfortable and I hate the tight space for my feet. The old club seat is in my opinion more comfortable, except of course you may have to climb over someone or have someone climb over you.

[AndrewinHK]

When I started my career I was flying between LHR-JFK once a week, I tried many of the other carriers, but BA got you hooked because they offered more choice, and you aren’t always looking for an experience as a frequent traveller, you just want a flight that fits your schedule and to sleep. BA benchmarks itself against its biggest transatlantic rivals (Delta/United/Air Canada/Lufthansa/KLM/AF/VS).

BA’s transatlantic network is unrivalled, as a business traveller direct flights are the only feasible option for many, and BA is just streets ahead in terms of frequencies. I think they get a hard time, on this forum and others, are they amazing, no, but they have a new J product rolled out much more extensively and ahead of LH/AF/KLM/VS, a ground service that has over the years been vastly improved for premium travellers at LHR/JFK/BOS amongst others. I like KLM/Swiss but if I’m flying London to JFK I don’t have the luxury of flying backwards to AMS/ZRH, and I have less choice, if I fly from LHR I have at least 12x daily to JFK with (BA/AA) versus 5x daily from AMS (KL/DL). Convenience is a massive factor, BA knows this, and they position themselves accordingly.

Would BA be my first choice if I was going on a leisure trip where I wanted an experience, probably not, but for transatlantic business travel I always found they suited my needs.

[FDOS]

The elephant in the room with BA, currently, from a business travel perspective is that the rate of cancelations and delays are simply of an order of magnitude that makes one think twoce before booking.

Business travel is, ultimately, about being assured that you will arrive at destination within a reasonable time of schedule.

5 users thanked author for this post.

Catalina, DerekVH, MarkCymru, YorkshireTraveller, sailandfly

[AndrewinHK]

FDOS, a good point, on the long haul routes, this is where frequency helps, to JFK at least, I always found if there was any disruption, generally, it was quickly sorted, and much less risk if you are flying point to point.

[FDOS]

@andrewinHK

Frequency helps if there is good availability. You may have seen my post in late June, where my daughter in law and son had their BA ORD day flight cancelled at short notice, with a proposed rebooking for 2 days later.

They did stick out and got home quicker (albeit via an incredibly inconvenient overnight flight).

However the high frequency of LHR ORD flights made no difference, as they were full.

I’m working in the middle east this week, didn’t consider using BA at all and will not, until I have more confidence I will arrive broadly when I booked to.

EC261 compensation is utterly useless, when you have a room full of clients waiting for you.

1 user thanked author for this post.

maxgeorge

[AndrewinHK]

FDOS, I would avoid BA’s A380 routes and any carrier that has a small 380 fleet, you are vulnerable to delays/cancellations, and often if a big jet gets canceled, it can be a challenge to rebook during busy periods. I can only say from my experience flying transatlantic LHR/JFK every week for more than 2 years, I found generally no real problems with any carrier. Sometimes I would book a flight on my way to the airport, and BA would be full, so I flew a few times with VS, I like the Virgin vibe, but I agree with Rferguson2 they are an acquired taste. Delta I dislike flying on old 767s, and I don’t find the Delta One cabin to be very aesthetically pleasing. AA is fine, I have been a fan since I was a kid and first saw the luxury liner logo, but I always found myself defaulting back to BA maybe more to do with cultural familiarity than anything else, coming home from a busy week in NYC, I always felt like I was home sooner if I boarded BA.

[Mark Caswell]

Hi – it looks like that “poor long-haul BA experience” thread was closed by the system, because the topic as a whole was reported for inappropriate content.

I have removed that report – could someone confirm if it is now open again (all threads appear open to me as I’m an admin, so I can’t be sure). Thanks!

[cybertravller]

I completely agree with you about Air France. I enjoyed flying them in Premium Economy, streets ahead of BA. La Premiere is on my bucket list too. I suppose a “massive” long-haul fleet is relative, depending on who you compare it to. I recall as crew when I was commuting from Warsaw to London, and BA cancelled all flights due to snow at LHR. Interestingly LOT Polish Airlines were flying to LHR and saved my bacon by getting me on the last flight out.

BA are unreliable, their products are OK, and the crew come across as disinterested. Their prices are consistently, for me, far more expensive than their competitors.

[AMcWhirter]

As regards Lufthansa it has never had the repuation of offering OTT service either in the air or on the ground.

The only exception being the airside first class terminal at Frankfurt which, assuming there have been no changes since I visited on launch day, must be considered one of the world’s finest (in terms of facilities and so on).

Lufthansa ran an international ad campaign some 20 years ago with the slogan “Reliability made in Germany.”

Really that sums up what Lufthansa is all about.

As for business class seating you may remember I wrote a couple of news pieces some months ago.

Yes the current and regular business class seating is out-of-date but better business class seating (confirmed 1-2-1) can be found in those A350s which Lufthansa acquired from PAL and the first batch of 787s which were originally intended for Hainan Airlines (but were supplied unused by Boeing).

[AndrewinHK]

I always found LH to be very practical, as are most things in Germany, and LH does seem like a well run airline, although they squabble with Fraport, and made some missteps with the livery, having to alter the colour etc. I look forward to the new J offering, they are going to be 5 years behind BA in fully rolling it out, but it looks to be a competitive offering. I always found it odd to have such a divide between J and F, LH F offering, albeit limited, is fantastic, but it must cost them a fortune to maintain the first class terminal, I wonder the business case for it. BA has a larger first class installed fleet, yet they have it in line, or as an almost inferior offering now to the new Club Suite, I find BA’s First strategy quite odd.

It would be interesting to see the ontime/cancellation data for BA versus peers, to see if it actually matches up to the sentiment here. I have to say it isn’t something that I experienced with them.

[FDOS]

AndrewinHK

Just out of Interest, did you know that BA ties with Qantas as the 3rd largest A380 fleet, globally? 🙂

[Author]

Posts