[MartynSinclair]

@ExecPlatAA – the trolley block is a mere dance by the crew to allow one of the pilots to strut out of the flight deck to flex his body and show the passengers “I am the pilot”.

Total show of ineffective power!

[ExecPlatAA]

@MartynSinclair The block provides what little physical isolation that is possible for the crew under the constraints of the fuselage structure and commercial objectives. Shall we have an “open door” policy – ala pre- 911? I shall agree to disagree with you on this and move on.

[MartynSinclair]

If AA were that serious about security, they would not use a trolley + trolley dolleys to secure the flight deck – with the pilots strutting in the galley, supposedly stretching their legs on 90 minute sectors…. Consider as well that “agents” are still on “most” flights in the USA.

Security is tight and if the TSA have nipped all the issues in the terminal, what is the problem on the flight itself OR are you concerned that the TSA have not done their job…..

I take security very seriously, especially when in command of a business jet – but quite frankly, I sometimes feel people are living like headless chickens, believing that every single part of the travel process is venerable, If that is the case……………..stop travelling!!!

[MrMichael]

I find myself agreeing with Martyn on this. Purely from my recollection more flights have been bought down by the pilots deliberately (Egyptair, Silkair, Lam, RAM and a few others, whereas PAX bringing it down I can only recall the events of 9/11, a BAE146 near LA and an attempt by an ex employee I think on a FedEx flight…strange they are all in USA. Seems to me we are more at risk from a raving looney pilot than a passenger.

I think security of the flight deck is a good idea, and the CX staff member that took the photo was a blithering donut, but realistically there was little risk.

How many flights have been saved by someone being able to gain access the flight deck? ….Sioux City DC 10 springs to mind.

There you go Martyn, two of us unpopular now.

[jkmyanmyan]

The paranoia leading us to believe the need for ‘total security’ is unbelievable. This incident started because a ‘daft/dumb’ passenger (look at her picture she posted of herself) needed to post her experience on social media as opposed to showing it to her friends over a dinner! Initially my thoughts was that she was a relative of crew (who are legitimately allowed) but horrors… she is a crew who is that dumb! I hope CX improves future recruitment to filter out ‘dumboes’ from inflight service personnel. As a frequent flyer I am fed up, firstly of the explosion of this type of crew; secondly, the ‘extra’ security procedures that we encounter (& pay for) daily at airports all in line for our ‘safety’ that I believe does not really enhance the safety of our travel (many examples by other already but undergoing a check by TSA in the US is a prime example). Agreed fully as Martin puts it…there are a lot of headless chickens around us !

[ExecPlatAA]

The flight deck is not secured with trolleys – that is just absurd. The path is obstructed by the trolleys and that is a good practice when the cockpit door is open and cockpit crew out in the galley. Its not a meet and greet opportunity – just as it would not be if a surgeon was performing a delicate (or any type) of surgery. . Period.
As far as headless chickens and TSA effectiveness are concerned – the question is not about an armed civilian on the flight. A nut job in the jump seat can do severe harm and in the locked cockpit, and air marshals (if present) would not be of much help then. Yes, the US airline protocols can be overbearing but they are, for the most part, keeping abundance of caution in mind.
Lets not defend a dumb behavior for the sake of an argument.

[Schaible]

Well, it is not uncommon that off duty airline employees take a seat in the cockpit. Making photos and boast on social networks? That would be up to the respective airline’s policies. In case of doubt: no!

Pax not employed by the operating airline (even family members) in the cockpit? No way! It would be clearly against any security policies and fully support sharp action against the pilot-in-charge (captain). Most terrorists won’t tell their family members what they are up to. Once they have a chance by sitting in the cockpit they may use it.

The flight deck must not be an area of entertainment in any means. Remember that Aeroflot A300 crash (SVO – HKG) because the captain allowed his kids take over the yoke.

[TheRealBabushka]

Schaible,
Sitting in the jump seat is quite different from letting pax fly the plane! One is not the natural extension of the other. How very rediculous to conflate the two!

[TheRealBabushka]

ExecPlatAA,

What exactly is the dumb behaviour? That CX (and other airlines) has a policy on cockpit access based on reason and not on the theatrics of security?
It’s not about defending a behaviour, it’s about ensuring an overbearing nonsensical approach to airline security does not become the minimum expectation.

[Schaible]

TheRealBabushka,

entertainment in any kind is to be kept out of the cockpit! Jump seats (both in cockpit & cabin) only for dead head and operating crew, not for revenue pax and crew family! Anything else would be compromising safety and security!

ExecPlatAA,

I fully agree with you. The CX incident should not have happened that way.

[AnthonyDunn]

Hmm, well I recall on my not so distant experience returning to LHR on CX noticing that one young lady was being invited up to the flight deck. She and the crew were very discreet about it and I expressed my envy to her as we walked up the air jetty upon arrival. She explained that “it was a perk of flying on CX – but only because her father was the pilot!” For myself, I did not feel that my flight safety – or that of any others on board – had been negated by this.

EDITED for spelling!

[canucklad]

Let me start by stating I’m not going to comment on the CX lass who’s social media naivety has ended with her losing her dream job…..It was never a real story. But I am going to make it a hat trick of unpopularity, along with MrMichael and Martyn.

Firstly, let me state that I totally empathise with the AA crew and their over cautious approach to cockpit security, I’m sure United crew also conduct themselves in a similar manner.
As a result of 9/11 the US has sadly morphed itself into almost paranoiac state, losing much of its innocence and whimsy along the way. And to an extent allowed the fanatics “terror” tactics to achieve gain its objective.

Personally, I believe in a civilised and open society, a society which encourages common sense rather than restricting free thought.. And a controlled cockpit rather than a sterile cockpit makes sense. Otherwise IMO the vile and abhorrent acts are being rewarded, because the terrorists are changing our way of life

Unfortunately, creating a sterile cockpit has just changed the focus of any would be suicide attackers to focus on just downing the aircraft rather than using it as a weapon they can target. If you are an easily nervous person than I’d avoid watching Hollywood blockbusters, the film industry has managed to think up very inventive and worryingly doable (especially since the collapse of the USSR) ways of creating mass destruction using civil airliners. Possibly even ways that terrorists would never have thought of themselves!!

Therefore you could argue that sterile cockpits increase the likelihood of a successful shoe/pants or liquid catastrophe. And sadly the good old days, when hijackers were just hijackers have long since vanished.. I’d also add , if memory serves me, that the crew on the TK flight at AMS could have been saved if the emergency services could have got to them quicker ?

[TheRealBabushka]

+1 canucklad

[ExecPlatAA]

Well said Schaible!

[CathayLoyalist2]

CX’s policy as I understand it, is the jump seat/s is/are available to staff and immediate family members upon a written request in advance to the captain. He/she has sole discretion to approve or deny the request. it is reasonable to assume some security check follows that request. If I was employed by CX I would regard that as a nice perk as it would mean I could get on board a flight utilizing my staff privilege if the main cabins were full. There is also a ‘pecking order’ based on the seniority of the request i.e. a captain, first officer or length of service. I think it has reached a pretty sorry state if a captain after years of training and flying cannot be trusted to make a decision as to who does or does not get access to the flight deck where company policy allows such limited/controlled access. If that was the case i.e. no one allowed at anytime maybe we should be questioning if we should fly at all.

[Author]

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