[EruditeSheep]

It is time, I think, for politicians to be courageous and to support schemes that would offer real long-term solutions addressing the needs of the UK as a whole. Even with a 3rd runway at LHR, growth in air traffic will be constrained. My experience earlier today of having to hold for 20 minutes or so in the stack to the north west of LHR shows that the airport is already flow-limited. And then having to use a remote stand at T5 (not for the first time) before being bussed to the terminal really underlines the fact that the airport is already gate limited at busy times.

And I don’t think that moving freight to Manston as JasPat1 suggests will help alleviate position either.

The approaches to LHR are becoming more and more congested, and this will soon become the most significant factor limiting further growth of the airport. This is quite apart from the effect on people living beneath flight paths. Politicians have to look beyond the need to score near term brownie points and to start thinking more about what the UK really needs.

As you will see from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regions_of_England, some 70% of the population live outside the area of London and the Home Counties. For many of those people, LHR and LGW are hardly convenient. This favours US and MEA operators, who have made significant in-roads (and presumably profits) from their use of regional airports.

[PeterCoultas]

EruditeSheep: plus 2, one each for each of your last two contributions !

Would however like Manston to have a few connecting flights rather than turning into yet another poor quality housing estate

A decent rail infrastructure with connections to a decent airport somewhere like Upper Heyford would make more sense than HS2 plus Brummie extension just feeding through to CDG….?

[AisleSeatTraveller]

approve runways at both Heathrow and Gatwick (the market will decide which is built (from a financing perspective) & which is used (for what)

Government just needs to make the decision (demanding that all infra improvements are covered by the developers) & pass the relevant emission / environment legislation (including all sources of pollution (cars etc)

it’s time for the decision

[JohnHarper]

Well now that Cameron doesn’t have to worry about upsetting a Tory mayor of London perhaps we’ll see an announcement in the coming days.

I note also that Goldsmith has backed away from his statement that he would resign his parliamentary seat if the third runway is built at LHR and Boris has gone quiet on a new airport.

The decks look quite clear to me.

[JasPat1]

From today’s Travelmole – at least London City airport will be able to expand..!!!:

New London mayor paves way for Docklands airport expansion

New mayor of London Sadiq Khan has withdrawn City Hall’s objection to London City Airport’s £300 million expansion plan.

The move paves the way for a larger terminal and a new taxiway for aircraft, which will allow the airport to handle 40% more flights and larger aircraft.

The mayor’s spokeman told the Financial Times he had withdrawn the objection to the airport buying land for the Greater London Authority that it needs for the expansion.

He said Khan’s decision was based on new evidence submitted by London City Airport and ongoing negotiations.

Khan’s predecessor Boris Johnson had tried to block the plans because of concerns about noise. Instead, he was pushing for a new London airport in the Thames Estuary.

The airport still needs planning permission and has lodge an application with the planning inspector, whose report must be approved by the Government.

Wednesday, May 11, 2016

[PhilipHart]

@AisleSeatTraveller

You are spot on. The decision should be completely market driven, and the government should keep the heck out it (other than producing the enabling legislation)

The project should be funded entirely with private money. And the people who supply that money will know how best how to spend it, because it will be they who will take the loss if they don’t.

[transtraxman]

Heathrow airport has accepted new more restrictive conditions in order to get permission for construction of the third runway.
“Heathrow offers concessions in fight to build third runway”.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36262479

Heathrow airport lays out the information in its own press release.
“Heathrow responds to Airports Commission conditions, third runway can now be approved by PM”.

http://your.heathrow.com/takingbritainfurther/heathrow-exceeds-airport-commissions-conditions/

This is just after the House of Commons Select Committee calls on the government to make a decision now.
“Government urged to set clear timetable for airport expansion”.

http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/transport-committee/news-parliament-2015/airport-expansion-report-published-15-16/

………and this is after passenger traffic increases by 2.6% yet again in the first quarter of 2016

http://www.atn.aero/article.pl?mcateg=airports&id=58496

[CathayLoyalist2]

One of the concessions as reported is no flights after 11.00pm or before 6.00am.

[JasPat1]

Hi CathayLoyalist2, I heard boss of Heathrow say on BBC Breakfast this morning between 11pm or before 530am

[transtraxman]

The answer from Gatwick has not been long in coming.
“Gatwick chief says Heathrow expansion would be a ‘failed solution’ “. (Travel Weekly 11-5-16)

http://www.travelweekly.co.uk/articles/61582/gatwick-chief-says-heathrow-expansion-would-be-a-failed-solution

From Gatwick airport`s own website…..
“Heathrow cannot promise away the reality of its location”.

http://mediacentre.gatwickairport.com/press-releases/2016/16-05-11-heathrow-cannot-promise-away-the-reality-of-its-location.aspx

So the battle is hotting up……….unfortunely I would say, as I firmly believe we will need both airports to be expanded.

[B737-200]

Develop Upper Heyford as an alternative to Heathrow? Have you been to Upper Heyford recently? It’s being turned into a massive housing estate. Would also conflict with Birmingham and Oxford zones as well as Brize, massive airspace re-design required, ain’t viable I’m afraid.

[SimonS1]

Indeed the disused runways at Upper Heyford are now a nature reserve/bird sanctuary.

Doesn’t sound promising to me.

[PhilipHart]

@B737-200

Re Birmingham, Oxford, Brize airspace conflct, ditto Northolt; the runways are pointing in the wrong direction to interoperate nicely with LHR’s east-west orientation.

BTW, a friend of mine, ex-NATS, told me that NATS have modelled a 4 runway LHR. So, if LHR gets the nod, expect the line to be that “we might as well build two extra runways, if we are going to the trouble to build one”.

[EruditeSheep]

B737-200

I appreciate the update. Even Google Earth hasn’t caught up yet either!

For those of you that may be interested, there are some fascinating insights about the history of RAF Upper Heyford available on-line. One that I found very informative, together with recent(ish) photos can be found at:

http://www.thebohemianblog.com/2015/08/usaf-upper-heyford-chasing-cold-war-ghosts-in-rural-oxfordshire.html

I also note that parts of the airbase now have protection of Grade II listing by English Heritage on account of some of the facilities present in the buildings.

[B737-200]

@ EruditeSheep, I only know as I fly out of Enstone and have flown over Heyford recently. I used to fly gliders from Bicester in the 1980’s and the Upper Heyford Mandatory Radar Zone was a pain. I did enjoy flying down the runway at 3000 feet in a glider from Shennington in 2002 on a cross-country flight and the airfield was disused. It was used as a storage space for unsold cars at the time and the long runway was covered in parked cars.

@PhilipHart, I currently work for said large provider of Air Traffic Services, although not as a Controller or an Airspace planner – you are correct, several options were looked at. The thing is, we need 2 new runways at Heathrow and one new runway at Gatwick or the UK will be left behind by Frankfurt, Paris CDG and Amsterdam. I wish the UK Government would take the long range view and just build them FFS.

I also live near to Heathrow and fully support airport expansion in the South East.

These views are my own and not necessarily those of my Employer.

[Author]

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